The Jan Tran: Page 43 - The Arsenal discussion community: One More in the Tolly

The Jan Tran

Claudius

I’d send Willock out.

That would leave Aubameyang, Lacazette, Saka, Martinelli, Willian, Pépé , ESR for 4 positions. Worry a bit about ESR. But hopefully Ceballos can spell him. If we do that, all the remaining kids could leave.

Qwiss

I think Artetas job now that ESR has slotted in so well is to pick his solution to not having ESR. I think playing Saka there and letting one of Pepe, Willian, Nelson play right makes the most sense.

Claudius

Playing Saka there when ESR is out means Saka never rests. We probably need Ceballos.

Qwiss

Claudius wrote:
Playing Saka there when ESR is out means Saka never rests. We probably need Ceballos.

Not really it just means you don't get to play them together every time ESR starts. The squad has to be rotated. Ceballos doesn't have the tools to play AM in any way similarly to ESR. Maybe you could play him in part of a different type of 3 man midfield if we sign another CM.

MistaT

Ceballos can't offer what ESR has.

ESR has covered the whole pitch, driven forward with the ball, and constantly been available. While Ceballos is good on the ball, and can play 1-2's, his problem is that he has to slow down the pace of the game so he can get involved. He's too slow to push/catch up to our forwards, and in turn we have to build up more slowly.

Klaus

I'm with Qwiss, it would have to be Saka for me too.

I think Willock or Nelson are the closest types to replacing Smith-Rowe if we're excluding the chili though, but they're both better off in other positions. Willock has similar off the ball movement which is invaluable but he's not good enough technically to be a playmaker. Nelson is probably the best of the lot technically, but he seems to lack a bit of the drive the other two have to always move the ball forward quickly.

Claudius

So...
... I think Saka is far and away the best placed player to repeat the ESR role. I just think he needs a rest. So when ESR is resting, Ceballos is the next best option.

Klaus

I don't think Ceballos is the answer to anything that high up the pitch. Bloke's basically incapable of running ahead of the ball.

Claudius

Have you watched his U20 games. He was excellent up top. And he played there before Madrid. He has good pitch vision. He’s not KDB clone ESR. But if we want to solve for a number 10 in the 20-30% of games ESR needs a rest, that’s what I would do. That allows us to maximize the number of games where we can field Saka and ESR together.

Klaus

Yes but it's a bit different playing youth football or being dropped into Real Madrid where everyone around you is a full order of magnitude better than anyone in the opposition in your average game. If anything it was his workrate and good technique that stood out in Spain. I think it'll be a bit like dropping Willian in there. It's just not going to end well.

Claudius

So you’d rather play Saka there and reduce the number of games we can play Saka and ESR together? Every game Saka plays there is a game Saka is not resting. And then you rest Saka and bring ESR back. What’s the least terrible outcome?

Klaus

What do you mean reducing the number of games? Saka would start most of the time anyway in the attack, at least for me. I'm saying he could drop down to cover that position if Smith-Rowe needs rest or gets injured, and then you'd have Pepe, Nelson and Martinelli all vying for Saka's spot on the wing (and Willian too, but fuck him, genuinely).

Big Willie

Think what Claude is trying to say is in a 40-50 game season he'd want the majority of games to have Saka right and ESR central with both playing together.

If Saka is ESR's replacement when he needs a rest, that means that Saka will have to be rested in games where ESR is playing meaning the total number of games they play alongside each other is reduced.

I can see the benefits both ways. On the one hand we are maximising the number of games they play together by resting around the same time results in us having our best team out the majority of the time but this leaves two big holes for the 10-20% of games they miss. On the other hand if they rotate each other we minimize the level drop down when either one is out but we reduce the number of games we have them on the field together.

Regardless both cases require both players remaining fit for the majority of the games otherwise it's all moot anyways.

QuincyAbeyie

Woulx we rather have Saka rest in the game where ESR isn't available/is also rested though? Seems like a better idea to spread out the resting of important offensive players than rest all of them at the same time.

Edit: Kind of what Willie says. But yeah, ESR is't exactly known for being available so not holding my breath.

Klaus

Will: You are talking about a full season though. We don't have 50 games left. There are about 20 in the league and maybe 5-10 in the cups if we're really lucky, and Smith-Rowe hasn't made a start outside the last two weeks so I don't think it'll be too difficult to manage him. It's not like the tank is empty going into the new year.

Big Willie

Quincy Abeyie wrote:
Woulx we rather have Saka rest in the game where ESR isn't available/is also rested though? Seems like a better idea to spread out the resting of important offensive players than rest all of them at the same time.

Edit: Kind of what Willie says. But yeah, ESR is't exactly known for being available so not holding my breath.

Honestly I think I'd prefer having our resting spread out over some of the easier fixtures as long as they're available for most of the important games. It minimises our bottom end whilst still keeping our top end playing most of the time.

But I can also see why one would want to top end to be available for the maximum amount of time possible if you can time the missing players to games you feel you can 100% win no matter the team, although that's easier said than done with our recent history.

Klaus wrote:
Will: You are talking about a full season though. We don't have 50 games left. There are about 20 in the league and maybe 5-10 in the cups if we're really lucky, and Smith-Rowe hasn't made a start outside the last two weeks so I don't think it'll be too difficult to manage him. It's not like the tank is empty going into the new year.

Oh yes, I agree. I guess it's more of a discussion with regards to future planning rather than just this season.

Anzac

Problem is there is talk we are wanting to shift out the likes of Willock and Nelson - if so then they are not an option.

If we fail to sign anyone creative or progressive for either CM or AM then that leaves us with the likes of Martinelli, Nketiah, Willian, Pepe, Xhaka, Luiz, AMN, Cedric, Mari & Runarsson our bench/rotation core.

As such I don't think the 4231 is sustainable at an effective capability without the right signing/s.
Accordingly I'd look to change formation to something we do have the capability to sustain = 442.

Bottom line I can see the priority to shift players out coming back to bite us if we do purge but then fail to add and/or then compromise by a panic buy/loan much the same as seen with Cedric, Mari, Willian, Luiz, Sokratis, Lichtsteiner, Runarsson, Xhaka, Mustafi, Kolasinac.

Clrnc

West Ham sells Haller for 20m to Ajax, about half of they paid for him after just 1+ season. English clubs really like to get fleeced

Qwiss

Wait till we sell Pepe

Gazza M

Qwiss! wrote:
Wait till we sell Pepe

thought the exact same thing. many big 2019 buys are looking funny in the light, and not just at arsenal

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