EPL: Arsenal v Sheffield United | Sunday Oct 4 2PM (GMT) | Onion soup & garlic bread: Page 23 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

EPL: Arsenal v Sheffield United | Sunday Oct 4 2PM (GMT) | Onion soup & garlic bread

Mirth

goon wrote:
Mirth wrote:
I think so but the fact that we also conceded against a club that didn't score a single goal this season is also a warning sign for anyone that's so convinced that we should switch to 4 at the back. Ultimately we'll end up in a position where we switch between the two formations but it's a slower process than we think. Our squad is really average.

I think that's a bit of a reach. We played 5 atb against West Ham and had significantly more issues.

West Ham are a decent side atm - they just tonked Leicester and Wolves.

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert

Solskjær's Mancwegian accent is hilarious/horrendous.

HomeSteak

We had 2 shots on target in the second half, good ones.

goon

Mirth wrote:
goon wrote:
I think that's a bit of a reach. We played 5 atb against West Ham and had significantly more issues.

West Ham are a decent side atm - they just tonked Leicester and Wolves.

Maybe but then SU haven't become a bad side overnight either.

You might be right about the 4-3-3, but a goal from outside the box is hardly evidence of that.

Mirth

Clrnc wrote:
Mirth wrote:
I think so but the fact that we also conceded against a club that didn't score a single goal this season is also a warning sign for anyone that's so convinced that we should switch to 4 at the back. Ultimately we'll end up in a position where we switch between the two formations but it's a slower process than we think. Our squad is really average.

Eh that's a wondergoal though. It happens when if you put a 6 man defence

We've been poor defensively for a long time and it's only recently that we've started becoming more solid. It's pretty obvious that the focus is to build a strong foundation that we can rely on before thinking of becoming more expansive. Certainly our record against big teams has changed because we've become more defensive - surely you don't want to break that pattern before we play Man City, Leicester and United?

Mirth

goon wrote:
Mirth wrote:
West Ham are a decent side atm - they just tonked Leicester and Wolves.

Maybe but then SU haven't become a bad side overnight either.

They've been poor for a while. They haven't won in 7 games.

Qwiss

Mirth wrote:
Claudius wrote:
Dire first half. Brilliant once we made the tactical substitution. We played football that would’ve made Wenger and Pep proud for about 30 minutes in a 433. You can see the building blocks. The journey will be long and frustrating but the direction is encouraging.

I think so but the fact that we also conceded against a club that didn't score a single goal this season is also a warning sign for anyone that's so convinced that we should switch to 4 at the back. Ultimately we'll end up in a position where we switch between the two formations but it's a slower process than we think. Our squad is really average.

We've given up much more dangerous chances playing 5 at the back than that. I watch MeGoldrick a lot cos he's Irish and if you give him that shot 100 times he scores it once. There was no tactical issue there.

Qwiss

Sicario wrote:
Willian looked much, much better in the middle. His legs have gone for a winger.

He was way better there. I thought it made Elneny look instantly better too. All of a sudden we had players and options everywhere. Helped of course than Pepe came on and was running at them.

I want to see this a lot more. Plus if you have Auba central and Tierney and Saka in the side you can switch from 5-2-3 to 4-2-3-1 at any time without needing a sub.

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert

Qwiss! wrote:
Sicario wrote:
Willian looked much, much better in the middle. His legs have gone for a winger.

He was way better there. I thought it made Elneny look instantly better too. All of a sudden we had players and options everywhere. Helped of course than Pepe came on and was running at them.

I want to see this a lot more. Plus if you have Auba central and Tierney and Saka in the side you can switch from 5-2-3 to 4-2-3-1 at any time without needing a sub.

What we saw, for once, was a semblance of balance. Auba up top, wingers in their best positions and Willian whose legs can't handle the wings now playing decently in the centre where he was able to form combinations.

MistaT

Sheffield had their first shot on goal some 70 mins in. I'm not bothered they scored their first goal vs us, we were largely defensively sound.

Klaus

Meanwhile, Sheffield United boss Chris Wilder said referee Lee Mason made a mistake to not send off Arsenal's David Luiz after he pulled back Oliver Burke in the opening stages.

"He has got to show courage, there are five of them (officials) making a decision," Wilder said.

"He has pulled his shirt, I am not making things up or clutching at straws, he has pulled his shirt. Regardless of if he rips it off his back or pulls it, the right decision has to be made.

"I'm going to be annoyed and frustrated about it. Are we looking for small wins that might help us? I'm saying now David Luiz should have been sent off."

I know two wrongs don't make one right, but the nerve to complain incessantly about this when one of his bullshit players nearly broke Auba's leg and got away with it...

Meatwad

Mirth wrote:
Claudius wrote:
Dire first half. Brilliant once we made the tactical substitution. We played football that would’ve made Wenger and Pep proud for about 30 minutes in a 433. You can see the building blocks. The journey will be long and frustrating but the direction is encouraging.

I think so but the fact that we also conceded against a club that didn't score a single goal this season is also a warning sign for anyone that's so convinced that we should switch to 4 at the back. Ultimately we'll end up in a position where we switch between the two formations but it's a slower process than we think. Our squad is really average.

if the only goals we allow with 4 at the back are worldies then we'll be in good shape.

Clrnc

I just don't get it. The pull is less than 0.5s, hardly a proper pull and Leno was getting to it anyway. Everytime when Luiz do somethings the witch hunt is on but when other players rugby tackle the players down nothing happens. We have seen it time and time again with Luiz conceding penalties for minimal shit and everyone else getting away with it. It's so annoying.

Qwiss

TBF Luiz needs to cut it out. He was lucky to get away with it and his reputation means 9 times out of 10 he gets the decision against him.

Klaus

Clrnc wrote:
We have seen it time and time again with Luiz conceding penalties for minimal shit and everyone else getting away with it. It's so annoying.

It's just like the kick today. Aubameyang and Nketiah got sent off for less last season, and I swear I've seen at least two dozen similar tackles since that Leicester game and not a single red card has been dealt out.

Luiz is an idiot and I'm not opposed to punishing bad fouls or unsporting behaviour, but the league is so arbitrary and badly officiated that it makes you despair.

Coombs

Most teams double up on Pepe because he's so dangerous with a free run. The problem is we don't have anyone next to him to make it count for anything.

The change Arteta made won us the game, it was also due to the execution of a great team goal and a solo effort. Once our momentum slowed, we were immediately vulnerable. Even though Willian went to the middle, he couldn't do anything to keep the ball or release pressure.

I think it was far less the shape that affected the game, and far more the change of shape that destabilized them and let us get in for a few minutes, and we made it count. I'm totally unconvinced that we can start that way and get away with it in the majority of games, if any at all.

goon

I don't think we were remotely vulnerable until they got their goal, and then the issue was that we all dropped deep so the passing options vanished, and by the way, we'd stitched to a back 5 by then too.

We bossed the game for a good 15 min period after the second goal but we made the mistake of trying to kill the game by keeping the ball vs kill the game by getting more goals. The change made a difference because we had more players to make combinations with. Willian was able to link up with Saka and Pape on either side. Watch the first goal, you have Willian, Pepe, Bellerin, Elneny and Auba all close to each other, a massive overload that we'd not have been able to do pull off without the change.

Coombs

Exactly, all pushed up, unable to recover, we had to score for it to work. Otherwise, we'd get hit hard. Thankfully, we did score, but this is not a team that can sustain that for any period of time and we have years of evidence to prove it.

Qwiss

goon wrote:
Watch the first goal, you have Willian, Pepe, Bellerin, Elneny and Auba all close to each other, a massive overload that we'd not have been able to do pull off without the change.

That was the big difference. Usually when Pepe starts a move like that you are lucky to have Laca close or Auba making a run off the shoulder on the other side. Today we had bodies all round, it was great. There is a myth about the solidity of the back 5 too. We were absolutely pounded with shots against West Ham and Liverpool. You can't just soak up pressure all season and hope to finish above midtable. And Arteta knows it, he tried a whole load of different things today to try and get us on the front foot but they didn't really pan out until the Pepe sub.

goon

It's a calculated gamble. You push players forward and bank on the opposition pulling all of theirs back. If you lose it you make sure you press quickly and aggressively to win it back, more likely the hoof it down the pitch for one of our centre backs to collect which is exactly what happened for 90% of the game.

If you're dealing with Spurs or Liverpool you obvious don't do that, against SU and most of these sides you absolutely can.

Better players will obviously enable you to do it against better sides and more aggressively, but I don't buy that you can't do it at all now.

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