David Raya: Page 2 - The Arsenal discussion community: One More in the Tolly

David Raya

Klaus

Ray wrote:
It doesn't really matter how many homegrown players we have, we just need to make sure we don't exceed 17 non-homegrown players to avoid penalties.

That's not correct unless they've changed the rules. If you can't amass 8 homegrown players you're only allowed a 21 man squad as a sanction. This happened to City a few years back.

Claudius

Good point, Klaus. I don’t think we have a lot of home grown players on the squad right now. We need to get rid of of at least one foreign player for premier league. I think our breakdown is:

Foreign (18 )
Leno, Xhaka, Gabriel, Mari, , Kolasinac, Pépé, Tierney, Mustafi, Torreira, Kolasinac, Ceballos, Lacazette, Luiz, Sokratis, Ozil, Willian, Elneny, Cedric

Homegrown (6)
Martinez, Macey, Chambers, Bellerin, Holding, AMN

Kids (7+)
Saka, Martinelli, ESR, Willock, Guendouzi, Saliba, Nelson, etc

Ray

Klaus wrote:
Ray wrote:
It doesn't really matter how many homegrown players we have, we just need to make sure we don't exceed 17 non-homegrown players to avoid penalties.

That's not correct unless they've changed the rules. If you can't amass 8 homegrown players you're only allowed a 21 man squad as a sanction. This happened to City a few years back.

It depends on how many players are in the squad but the maximum is 17 Non-HG players, anything above that has to be HG players. i.e. we currently have 6 HG players, add that to the 17 allowed and we can have a squad of 23 + any U21 player.

The penalties only come in when you have more than 17 Non-HG players in which case you would have to sell / loan them or not register them. Not having a HG player just means one less player in the squad.

If we were to sell Emi, we would have to replace him with a HG player, because we're already at the maximum Non-HG player limit. In which case it wouldn't be worth the hassle for only £10m or so profit.

Klaus

Claudius wrote:
Good point, Klaus. I don’t think we have a lot of home grown players on the squad right now. We need to get rid of of at least one foreign player for premier league. I think our breakdown is:

Foreign (18 )
Leno, Xhaka, Gabriel, Mari, , Kolasinac, Pépé, Tierney, Mustafi, Torreira, Kolasinac, Ceballos, Lacazette, Luiz, Sokratis, Ozil, Willian, Elneny, Cedric

Homegrown (6)
Martinez, Macey, Chambers, Bellerin, Holding, AMN

Kids (7+)
Saka, Martinelli, ESR, Willock, Guendouzi, Saliba, Nelson, etc

Right. I think it's also one of the factors that made us keep Holding for the time being, much more so than Luiz's recent injury.

JazzG

Klaus wrote:
I think Raya counts as homegrown which is probably why we're after him. If Emi leaves we don't have enough of them and could end up with squad penalties.

Might explain why we have decided not to loan out Holding then. Isn't it 8 homegrown players in our 25 man squad?

I know Saliba will count as homegrown next summer, not sure if Martinelli will though.

Claudius

Klaus, the only real boundary is that 17 foreigner rule. If you are unable to find enough homegrown players then you would be unable to field a full squad of 25. The same applies in the champions league / Europa League.

Klaus

JazzG wrote:
Klaus wrote:
I think Raya counts as homegrown which is probably why we're after him. If Emi leaves we don't have enough of them and could end up with squad penalties.

Might explain why we have decided not to loan out Holding then. Isn't it 8 homegrown players in our 25 man squad?

I know Saliba will count as homegrown next summer, not sure if Martinelli will though.

Yeah I think it's a big reason why we're keeping Holding too. We signed Martinelli two weeks too late for him to get homegrown status unfortunately. Shouldn't have dragged our feet on that one, although I don't think anyone really imagined he'd turn out to be this good.

JazzG

Claudius wrote:
Good point, Klaus. I don’t think we have a lot of home grown players on the squad right now. We need to get rid of of at least one foreign player for premier league. I think our breakdown is:

Foreign (18 )
Leno, Xhaka, Gabriel, Mari, , Kolasinac, Pépé, Tierney, Mustafi, Torreira, Kolasinac, Ceballos, Lacazette, Luiz, Sokratis, Ozil, Willian, Elneny, Cedric

Homegrown (6)
Martinez, Macey, Chambers, Bellerin, Holding, AMN

Kids (7+)
Saka, Martinelli, ESR, Willock, Guendouzi, Saliba, Nelson, etc

Those in red will most certainly be gone I reckon, you've also put Kola in twice 😉 Could some of those in the kids not be put in the Homegrown category yet? For example Saka, ESR, Willock or Nelson?

I find it ridiculous that Tierney counts as a foreign player but someone in who has come through a Welsh academy doesn't. I know some Scots want independence but come on!

Klaus wrote:
Yeah I think it's a big reason why we're keeping Holding too. We signed Martinelli two weeks too late for him to get homegrown status unfortunately. Shouldn't have dragged our feet on that one, although I don't think anyone really imagined he'd turn out to be this good.

Remember reading at the time we wanted him to get his Italian passport and Brazilian players can't leave to join here until they're 18? A quick google brings this up from reddit, not sure if accurate

From the ruling https://www.sports.legal/2017/04/part-one-home-grown-player-requirements-in-english-football-and-the-introduction-of-club-developed-players/ ;

for a period, continuous or non-continuous, of three seasons or 36 months prior to his 21st birthday (or the end of the season during which they turn 21).

His birthday being in June means I'm not sure how this lines up, as its kind of between seasons. If this counts as him turning 18 during this season (19/20) then he shall become a homegrown player in his third season in the 22/23 season as that is the season he turns 21 and he shall have been with us 3 years.

Claudius

Thanks, Jazz. So 17 foreign players. Agree the red most likely to leave. We might even leave some trading for January. Especially with all these defenders coming back.

Asterix

I'm really sad Emi seems to be heading off as I think he could have become number 1, but it's understandable from a cold economic point of view. Emi is on a low wage, has bugger all contract left and has good market value. It would be harder to sell Leno I think.

At least Chelsea aren't in for him - they want a top class keeper too.

I'm with Dules on Raya - he's only 6ft, and while Mat Ryan at Brighton is the same height, and Iker Casillas for example is 182cm, I would prefer someone a bit taller for the sake of commanding the area. And we should spend as much as possible of that fee on a new midfielder first.

I've heard Matt Macey is off too so promoting him may not be an option.

Meatwad

Claudius wrote:
Klaus, the only real boundary is that 17 foreigner rule. If you are unable to find enough homegrown players then you would be unable to field a full squad of 25. The same applies in the champions league / Europa League.

yup the only rule is you can't have more than 17 non-homegrown players in the squad, so the only way you can have a squad of 25 is to have 8 homegrown players over the age of 21. and if they're homegrown and under 21 they don't have to be listed in the 25 man squad.

TambourineMan

Hope we have a sell on clause negotiated because I see Mendy failing at Chelsea and then them coming in big for Martinez next summer.

Clrnc

Survived not selling AMN and now this. Arsenal really likes to test fans patience.

If it's Emi pushing for a move then fair enough. But all these hassle to sign a really average keeper in Raya is a joke especially considering the nett gain is little

lorddulaarsenal

If emi goes it’ll sure be time for a T Partey

BWoolley

Is there a chance Macey won't leave if we sell Martinez and promote him to being the cup keeper and #2? He was rated higher than Martinez for a long time and is 6'6" I think?

Don Pacifico

For what it's worth, my Brentford mate rates Raya very highly.

Still have an issue with spending so much money on a back-up though in a summer where we're trying to raise funds.

lorddulaarsenal

I heard that Raya struggles to reach the crossbar

lorddulaarsenal

Stick to your guns Brentford!

Meatwad

yup hold the line and tell arsenal to fuck off. arsenal isn't good enough to come and take your #1.

Anzac

Claudius wrote:
Good point, Klaus. I don’t think we have a lot of home grown players on the squad right now. We need to get rid of of at least one foreign player for premier league. I think our breakdown is:

Foreign (18 )
Leno, Xhaka, Gabriel, Mari, , Kolasinac, Pépé, Tierney, Mustafi, Torreira, Kolasinac, Ceballos, Lacazette, Luiz, Sokratis, Ozil, Willian, Elneny, Cedric

Homegrown (6)
Martinez, Macey, Chambers, Bellerin, Holding, AMN

Kids (7+)
Saka, Martinelli, ESR, Willock, Guendouzi, Saliba, Nelson, etc

You have included Kolasinac 2x in the Foreign = 17?

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