Granit Xhaka: Page 16 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Granit Xhaka

Anzac

Gazza M wrote:
I don't think many here disagree zac. I'm on tenterhooks to see how the club handle xhaka and lacazette this summer

IMO it primarily comes down to if we regain UCL, then our preferred shape, and the roles & available player resources.

As such what may work for one may also work against the other.
Lacazette is currently doing well with a #10 in close support, but struggled in the 343 and may do likewise in a 433 unless we push the CMAs up high in close support, (although this doesn't fit our current use of overlapping FBs).
Conversely a switch to an inverted 3 man midfield would provide better opportunity for Xhaka to remain as part of the mix of roles, whereas he would eventually be exposed against better teams if he remains as part of a 2 man midfield.

Ultimately we should look to upgrade on both, but finances and failure to regain UCL qualification may remove any potential changes.

Claudius

banduan

For as long as Xhaka can be at least 3rd / 4th choice we won't be letting this guy go, might even give him a new contract. But we badly need an upgrade and Ceballos isn't quite it either.

Meatwad

Claudius wrote:

that's a mix bag of players. i guess successful passes doesn't factor into it.

Claudius

I just found it interesting that he’s completed so many. But he’s around 90th percentile for both volume of passes into the final third and long pass completion rate. Xhaka.

Anzac

My issue with the table is it provides no context in relation to those passes.
How many are also 'key passes'?
How many are Assists or pre-assists?
How many are successful/completed?
How many are made to promote the team into the final 3rd as opposed to being made once the team is already in the final 3rd?
How many actually benefit the team play as opposed to being 'stat fillers'?

Regardless of this we know Xhaka is essentially risk adverse as a player and his prioritisation of possession v risk. We also know this results in his cautious decision making once he is on the ball, which often leads to slowing down the rhythm of our passing and movement in transiton, and the adverse impacts this has on our attacking play.

Claudius

Xhaka constantly appears quite high in progressive passing stats. He takes and completes a high number. So Xhaka is elite at progressive passing. It aligns with the rumour that this is why he was scouted 5 years ago.

The issue with Xhaka is I think he’s an on-the-ball playmaker vs an off-the-ball playmaker like ESR. He ends up demanding a lot of the ball (you just see it in our passing maps, he is the nexus of passing relationships). And over and above the good progressive passing, he does some unproductive things like slow down play with his immobility, recycle the ball to defenders including when there are progressive passing options, and decline to do take-ons that can drive progressive carries. I think that’s Xhaka in a nutshell and why someone who is highly skilled in an important area ends up coming with large trade-offs.

Anzac

Claudius wrote:
Xhaka constantly appears quite high in progressive passing stats. He takes and completes a high number. So Xhaka is elite at progressive passing. It aligns with the rumour that this is why he was scouted 5 years ago.

The issue with Xhaka is I think he’s an on-the-ball playmaker vs an off-the-ball playmaker like ESR. He ends up demanding a lot of the ball (you just see it in our passing maps, he is the nexus of passing relationships). And over and above the good progressive passing, he does some unproductive things like slow down play with his immobility, recycle the ball to defenders including when there are progressive passing options, and decline to do take-ons that can drive progressive carries. I think that’s Xhaka in a nutshell and why someone who is highly skilled in an important area ends up coming with large trade-offs.

Don't disagree and IMO it is little different in principle to the situation with Ozil, and IMO the outcome should be the same as both are detrimental to the team play unless they are executing those numbers. Unlike AW I am not prepared to carry 1 such player unless they are producing those outcome every game, let alone 2 or more such players. Ozil has gone, time for Xhaka to do likewise.

goon

Xhaka's long passing has always been fine, especially down the left. His short/quick passing has always been the issue, and they'll make up the large majority of his passes in any given game.

Claudius

Burnley had 80 pressing actions against us. Unusually high for them. Similar story with Benfica in that tough first leg.

I suspect the calculation some teams are making is press them hard, they are bound to commit an error eventually. And even if they beat the press, they aren’t clinical like a Man United or Man City, so it’s a chance worth taking.

awooga83

He's fine when he's given time and space to do what he wants but he doesn't get that in the league. His passing under pressure is weak and sluggish and error prone.

When he plays well he's just okay kind of anonymous doesn't make any noticeable improvement to the team. For that we accommodate him and his errors. He's the outfield player with highest error leading to goal stat for a reason and any team will be handicapped with a player like that in it.

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert

The sooner we get rid the sooner we can build to become a properly competitive team again.

You live and die by your midfield. Well, we've mostly died.

Claudius

Xhaka definitely makes it memorable. In 3 of the last 4 years, he’s among the top 20 in errors leading to goal. Why this is remarkable is that errors can leading to goal are rare. The worst players only commit 3 or 4 in a season, and the top of the list is dominated by goalkeepers. So you could say this is a low count to base a trend on, but Xhaka makes it hard on himself by constantly being there.

We need to eliminate inefficiency in our first 11. Excessive injuries, carelessness with the ball, and this self-destructive DNA Xhaka has.

Anzac

Claudius wrote:
Xhaka definitely makes it memorable. In 3 of the last 4 years, he’s among the top 20 in errors leading to goal. Why this is remarkable is that errors can leading to goal are rare. The worst players only commit 3 or 4 in a season, and the top of the list is dominated by goalkeepers. So you could say this is a low count to base a trend on, but Xhaka makes it hard on himself by constantly being there.

We need to eliminate inefficiency in our first 11. Excessive injuries, carelessness with the ball, and this self-destructive DNA Xhaka has.

And that's only those errors leading to goal directly attributed to him, and not those started by him as v LCFC and then again today.

I posted in the Leno thread that IMO the goal today starts with him again.

He receives the ball in space (and had already had 2 looks over his shoulder to know where Tierney & Willian are behind him), yet he takes a touch when receiving the ball but back towards where it came from as he remains square on and never opens his body to free his left foot. He then decides to draw the 2 pressing players onto him before making the only left foot pass he has available to Gabriel at the last moment, but gives Gabriel no options other than to pass to Leno.

Again Leno's decision to pass to the player directly in front of him and under pressure is poor, and Ceballos indicates he wants the ball to his right but instead it is too close to him and more to his left where the closest pressing player is able to tackle in what is basically a hospital pass. Ceballos had also looked behind him and knew the space was to his right, both from the press and where Tierney & Co had space.

speedy

Anzac wrote:
Claudius wrote:
Xhaka definitely makes it memorable. In 3 of the last 4 years, he’s among the top 20 in errors leading to goal. Why this is remarkable is that errors can leading to goal are rare. The worst players only commit 3 or 4 in a season, and the top of the list is dominated by goalkeepers. So you could say this is a low count to base a trend on, but Xhaka makes it hard on himself by constantly being there.

We need to eliminate inefficiency in our first 11. Excessive injuries, carelessness with the ball, and this self-destructive DNA Xhaka has.

And that's only those errors leading to goal directly attributed to him, and not those started by him as v LCFC and then again today.

I posted in the Leno thread that IMO the goal today starts with him again.

He receives the ball in space (and had already had 2 looks over his shoulder to know where Tierney & Willian are behind him), yet he takes a touch when receiving the ball but back towards where it came from as he remains square on and never opens his body to free his left foot. He then decides to draw the 2 pressing players onto him before making the only left foot pass he has available to Gabriel at the last moment, but gives Gabriel no options other than to pass to Leno.

Again Leno's decision to pass to the player directly in front of him and under pressure is poor, and Ceballos indicates he wants the ball to his right but instead it is too close to him and more to his left where the closest pressing player is able to tackle in what is basically a hospital pass. Ceballos had also looked behind him and knew the space was to his right, both from the press and where Tierney & Co had space.

We've used drawing players in as a tactic successfuly since arteta arrived. It was the key most obvious thing he brought in.

When Leno receives the ball bellerin is in a ton of space. And our right winger isnt closley marked ahead of him. Leno shat the bed because he's limited with the ball at his feet. Earlier Luiz had a simular brain fart.

Neither are artetas fault, Luiz has had the same errors even under peak jose who's the best manager I've seen. Luiz just is who he is. Our gameplan was perfect they couldn't deal with our defensive shape at all. They had a horror show. Our system killed their game. The only chance they had was that Luiz and Leno have brain farts and they needed one but no manager can solve them.

Clrnc

I think that's the difference between a keeper with amazing feet or just a normal one. Not a big deal though in our case we have more things to worry about. Good points Speed

Anzac

goon wrote:
Xhaka's long passing has always been fine, especially down the left. His short/quick passing has always been the issue, and they'll make up the large majority of his passes in any given game.

He hardly does it any more unless we are already camped in the final 3rd, and Partey does so more often in the middle 3rd to actually progress the play = we don't need Xhaka in any capability.
Despite Ceballos' 2 recent involvements in goals conceded I still want to see a Ceballos-Partey combo given a run.

Anzac

speedy wrote:
Anzac wrote:
And that's only those errors leading to goal directly attributed to him, and not those started by him as v LCFC and then again today.

I posted in the Leno thread that IMO the goal today starts with him again.

He receives the ball in space (and had already had 2 looks over his shoulder to know where Tierney & Willian are behind him), yet he takes a touch when receiving the ball but back towards where it came from as he remains square on and never opens his body to free his left foot. He then decides to draw the 2 pressing players onto him before making the only left foot pass he has available to Gabriel at the last moment, but gives Gabriel no options other than to pass to Leno.

Again Leno's decision to pass to the player directly in front of him and under pressure is poor, and Ceballos indicates he wants the ball to his right but instead it is too close to him and more to his left where the closest pressing player is able to tackle in what is basically a hospital pass. Ceballos had also looked behind him and knew the space was to his right, both from the press and where Tierney & Co had space.

We've used drawing players in as a tactic successfuly since arteta arrived. It was the key most obvious thing he brought in.

When Leno receives the ball bellerin is in a ton of space. And our right winger isnt closley marked ahead of him. Leno shat the bed because he's limited with the ball at his feet. Earlier Luiz had a simular brain fart.

Neither are artetas fault, Luiz has had the same errors even under peak jose who's the best manager I've seen. Luiz just is who he is. Our gameplan was perfect they couldn't deal with our defensive shape at all. They had a horror show. Our system killed their game. The only chance they had was that Luiz and Leno have brain farts and they needed one but no manager can solve them.

IMO the count-down to disaster began with Xhaka dwelling on the ball and then giving Gabriel a hospital pass with limited options.

speedy

Xhaka consistently been our best midfielder for how many years Anzac?

We've brought players in to compete with him elneny, douzi, Dani, torrera. But he's better than all of them. When Ramsey was here and replaced xhaka in the team we'd be a horror show. People are to harsh on the guy.

The second we get someone better he'll want to leave himself. Several ex players have said the team needs xkaka, arteta brough him back and and emery said the team desperately needs xhaka. The guy gives 100% every day and the teams better when he plays.

If we sell him and get another dud like torreira who can't hack england or player like Fred who takes 18 months to adapt to the league we'd be potentially giving up on a top 4 chase as we're generally shit when he doesn't play. It'd be a massive gamble.

He's on low wages
Improves the changing room
Improves the team performance
Always shows for the ball
Gives 100%

And upgrade would be great but you could say the same thing about 3/4 of the team.

Sicario

speedy wrote:
Xhaka consistently been our best midfielder for how many years Anzac?

We've brought players in to compete with him elneny, douzi, Dani, torrera. But he's better than all of them. When Ramsey was here and replaced xhaka in the team we'd be a horror show. People are to harsh on the guy.

The second we get someone better he'll want to leave himself. Several ex players have said the team needs xkaka, arteta brough him back and and emery said the team desperately needs xhaka. The guy gives 100% every day and the teams better when he plays.

If we sell him and get another dud like torreira who can't hack england or player like Fred who takes 18 months to adapt to the league we'd be potentially giving up on a top 4 chase as we're generally shit when he doesn't play. It'd be a massive gamble.

He's on low wages
Improves the changing room
Improves the team performance
Always shows for the ball
Gives 100%

And upgrade would be great but you could say the same thing about 3/4 of the team.

This is not true. Xhaka is one of the worst players to ever play for Arsenal in our history.

The quicker we get rid of him the quicker we will progress.

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