Arsenal Summer Exits 2020: Page 43 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Arsenal Summer Exits 2020

jones

The one thing we got wrong is that we didn't pay the 20-25m Valencia initially asked for. He was highly rated for a reason, he just crumbled here after injuries, a bunch of bad performances and a clown car defensive setup.

ohboy

jones wrote:
The one thing we got wrong is that we didn't pay the 20-25m Valencia initially asked for. He was highly rated for a reason, he just crumbled here after injuries, a bunch of bad performances and a clown car defensive setup.

Yes, had we moved quicker, we could have paid less.

The fact is from back then until now, when you look at defenders who have moved and their fee, it was an epic mistake.

Even at Valencia Mustafi was not particularly quick, never a great tackler, and was not dominant in the air. He was playing well, but was not amazing in any area.

Very very poor signing, not to mention his concentration and his tendency to crumble in big spots.

Clrnc

I remember Cagigao saying it was against the wishes of our scout the they signed him purely by stats.

Mustafi has always been statistically strong, even here. But it's his mental aspect that is the killer. He is too stupid to understand football defending in general.

jones

ohboy!!! wrote:
jones wrote:
The one thing we got wrong is that we didn't pay the 20-25m Valencia initially asked for. He was highly rated for a reason, he just crumbled here after injuries, a bunch of bad performances and a clown car defensive setup.

Yes, had we moved quicker, we could have paid less.

The fact is from back then until now, when you look at defenders who have moved and their fee, it was an epic mistake.

Even at Valencia Mustafi was not particularly quick, never a great tackler, and was not dominant in the air. He was playing well, but was not amazing in any area.

Very very poor signing, not to mention his concentration and his tendency to crumble in big spots.

Disagree completely. He was terrific in his first season under Nuno and still capable under the jokers Neville and Ayesteran. He was linked with a move to Barcelona at 23 yo and Valencia were reportedly holding out for 50m back when that used to be a lot. He didn't work out but I remember being over the moon when we signed him, he was one of the best defensive prospects in La Liga back then.

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert

ohboy!!! wrote:
jones wrote:
The one thing we got wrong is that we didn't pay the 20-25m Valencia initially asked for. He was highly rated for a reason, he just crumbled here after injuries, a bunch of bad performances and a clown car defensive setup.

Yes, had we moved quicker, we could have paid less.

The fact is from back then until now, when you look at defenders who have moved and their fee, it was an epic mistake.

Even at Valencia Mustafi was not particularly quick, never a great tackler, and was not dominant in the air. He was playing well, but was not amazing in any area.

Very very poor signing, not to mention his concentration and his tendency to crumble in big spots.

I don't remember what happened but why would we have had to pay less had we moved earlier?

Claudius

It appears Chelsea were bidding for him at the £25m valuation we also had. And he had a £41m release clause. So we must’ve upped to secure the deal.
Overpaid for Xhaka that summer as well. And it’s when we started looking at Lacazette at a rumoured £35m.

jones

Can't recall Xhaka and Laca being cheaper but Mustafi could've left for 25m until some deadline Valencia set to have time to secure a replacement. We called couple weeks after that deadline, Valencia had to scramble and charged a higher fee because they had to overpay for Garay themselves afterwards.

Claudius

Funnily enough, as much as we are all exhausted of Mustafi, he’d probably be a better bet than Holding in Arteta’s 3 man set up. Basically our right side of defense is Holding and Saliba until Chambers returns. I have a soft spot for Holding but don’t like him for Arteta ball.

goon

I never buy these stories about overpaying etc. The one that's clearly horseshit is the one you see going around about Gibbs.

You have journalists come out with values out of their backside then justify the discrepancy with made up stories.

I can believe the price going up by a million or two towards the end of the window, but 10m+? Come on now.

deardevil

jones wrote:
You start off with leaving any subjectivity aside and start with an arbitrary starting point of ten years and an arbitrary factor of competitiveness by focusing on the amount of different winners. Bar 18/19 every title race since 2015 was more or less over by February/March, Bayern or Juventus for example have been pushed to the brink a lot more than your Citys Chelseas or Liverpool last year.

Those figures you quote are conveniently leaving out 15/16 where English teams shat the bed while Spanish teams won CL and EL, while including the current season where only qualifiers have been played. If you include the last full five seasons the gaps look a lot closer to what I said. Regardless, I wasn't talking about the coefficient figures in the first place, they use highly dodgy weighting ie EL matches won being worth as much as CL wins and they're also largely irrelevant due to the rule changes from a couple seasons ago.

I was talking exclusively about the quality of both leagues and as someone who watches both most Match days while I'd say the EPL is better there's certainly no chasm between them. Claudes original point of the lower level of competition was with regards to both leagues in their entirety, if I respond naming teams from said leagues instead of focusing just on the teams you're in a position to 'meaningfully compare' because you don't watch both leagues then frankly you're not only in no position to accuse me of putting up strawmen you're not really adding anything to the discussion.

It really is odd to talk about the PL's competitiveness when the last three seasons has seen teams flirt with the 100 point mark. The only reason the PL appears more competitive in recent years (acknowledge this was debated in a different thread) is because we have gone from competing for the title against 1-3 teams to competing for Europa/CL spots against 4-6 teams. If we end up facing the ignominy of dropping further down the table, the league will become even more competitive as we're fighting 6-8 teams to avoid the drop. The PL is no more competitive than it was 20 years ago and certainly not that much more than the Bundesliga. Bayern Munich would hit most Englsh teams for 6-0 and Dortmund too for that matter.

banduan

Mustafi has many great qualities, it's how appalling the bad qualities are that gets to you. He's still a good defender who'll serve Lazio well.

Ray

deardevil wrote:
jones wrote:
You start off with leaving any subjectivity aside and start with an arbitrary starting point of ten years and an arbitrary factor of competitiveness by focusing on the amount of different winners. Bar 18/19 every title race since 2015 was more or less over by February/March, Bayern or Juventus for example have been pushed to the brink a lot more than your Citys Chelseas or Liverpool last year.

Those figures you quote are conveniently leaving out 15/16 where English teams shat the bed while Spanish teams won CL and EL, while including the current season where only qualifiers have been played. If you include the last full five seasons the gaps look a lot closer to what I said. Regardless, I wasn't talking about the coefficient figures in the first place, they use highly dodgy weighting ie EL matches won being worth as much as CL wins and they're also largely irrelevant due to the rule changes from a couple seasons ago.

I was talking exclusively about the quality of both leagues and as someone who watches both most Match days while I'd say the EPL is better there's certainly no chasm between them. Claudes original point of the lower level of competition was with regards to both leagues in their entirety, if I respond naming teams from said leagues instead of focusing just on the teams you're in a position to 'meaningfully compare' because you don't watch both leagues then frankly you're not only in no position to accuse me of putting up strawmen you're not really adding anything to the discussion.

It really is odd to talk about the PL's competitiveness when the last three seasons has seen teams flirt with the 100 point mark. The only reason the PL appears more competitive in recent years (acknowledge this was debated in a different thread) is because we have gone from competing for the title against 1-3 teams to competing for Europa/CL spots against 4-6 teams. If we end up facing the ignominy of dropping further down the table, the league will become even more competitive as we're fighting 6-8 teams to avoid the drop. The PL is no more competitive than it was 20 years ago and certainly not that much more than the Bundesliga. Bayern Munich would hit most Englsh teams for 6-0 and Dortmund too for that matter.

The last 5 years:

La Liga - 2 different champions
Serie A - 1 champion
Ligue 1 - 2 different champions
Bundesliga - 1 champion
PL - 4 different champions

There's clearly more challenge for the title in the PL compared to the other leagues.

Clrnc

That's really a super weird way to look at it.

Klaus

How is it weird? It's extremely clear and concise. Has there been four different Premier League champions or not in the last five years?

jones

It's weird in that gives a very concise answer to a layered question. Some would consider a different runaway winner every season to be not competitive but inconsistent, it's exciting to not know who'll win the season in August, not so much if you know for certain every February.

Klaus

It seems to me that you're the one who confuses consistency for competition. I appreciate that there are nuances, but you're disqualified by default if you try to argue that a single team raking home the league for an entire decade is a sign of healthy competition while four different champions in five years spells the lack of the same.

QuincyAbeyie

Still a weird way to look at it since more champions doesn't automatically equal a more competitive league. La Liga has only had two champions but they're usually fighting until the last day of the season.

goon

What the hell is the context of this argument? You’re all talking about completely different things.

lorddulaarsenal

They’re being so competitive

goon

😆

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