Klaus wrote:

I think if we had actually played Ainsley over the last two years instead of freezing him out he'd be further along in his development though. Technically he's one of the best we've produced. I don't think there's a tool in Kevin Philips's toolbox that Maitland-Niles isn't in possession of too.

I did think of you when he was bossing things in the first half against Watford!

Ricky1985 wrote:

That's lazy analysis, White has been superb defensively in recent matches.

Arteta has also spoken many times recently about how defending is paramount, that he tells the defenders they've got to love defending, and playing with the ball comes second.

Regardless, Ben White has been every bit as good, if not better, than Gabriel over the last 4 or 5 games. They've both been excellent, and our defensive record reflects that.

Just because you disagree doesn't mean it's lazy analysis  

Arteta has already mentioned how White isn't experienced or mature, and he's specific ability to progress the ball is what makes him stand out.

Lets agree to disagree, as I don't think he's been as good as Gabriel for the past few games. He's been bailed out by Ramsdale a couple of times now, his defensive positioning and awareness is weak, but may improve with time.

I don't think any of our current midfield options are really suited to playing the #6 role. All 3 of Partey, AMN & Lokonga are all better suited as #8s - B2B or Mezzala, whilst Odegaard would be better suited to a roaming playmaker rather than as DLP.

I think Adams is an interesting option with his being able to play on the flank, but I am concerned his lack of height could be an issue.

Ray wrote:

Ricky1985 wrote:

That's lazy analysis, White has been superb defensively in recent matches.

Arteta has also spoken many times recently about how defending is paramount, that he tells the defenders they've got to love defending, and playing with the ball comes second.

Regardless, Ben White has been every bit as good, if not better, than Gabriel over the last 4 or 5 games. They've both been excellent, and our defensive record reflects that.

Just because you disagree doesn't mean it's lazy analysis  

Arteta has already mentioned how White isn't experienced or mature, and he's specific ability to progress the ball is what makes him stand out.

Lets agree to disagree, as I don't think he's been as good as Gabriel for the past few games. He's been bailed out by Ramsdale a couple of times now, his defensive positioning and awareness is weak, but may improve with time.

It just seems like a lazy stereotype at this point. Along the same line as the narrative that he's poor in the air. And Arteta has spoken about White's quality as a defender being just as important as his ability on the ball.

He's strung together 4 or 5 really good games, I think that's fair comment that stacks up objectively in terms of White's underlying statistics and the team's positive results. You're entitled to your opinion, of course, but if you think he hasn't been good defensively recently then we see football very differently.

Ricky1985 wrote:

Regardless, Ben White has been every bit as good, if not better, than Gabriel over the last 4 or 5 games.

That's an outrageous level of hyperbole.

Ricky1985 wrote:

Ray wrote:

Just because you disagree doesn't mean it's lazy analysis  

Arteta has already mentioned how White isn't experienced or mature, and he's specific ability to progress the ball is what makes him stand out.

Lets agree to disagree, as I don't think he's been as good as Gabriel for the past few games. He's been bailed out by Ramsdale a couple of times now, his defensive positioning and awareness is weak, but may improve with time.

It just seems like a lazy stereotype at this point. Along the same line as the narrative that he's poor in the air. And Arteta has spoken about White's quality as a defender being just as important as his ability on the ball.

He's strung together 4 or 5 really good games, I think that's fair comment that stacks up objectively in terms of White's underlying statistics and the team's positive results. You're entitled to your opinion, of course, but if you think he hasn't been good defensively recently then we see football very differently.

[font=Source Sans Pro]It's not lazy and not a stereotype. Made a few defensive mistakes against CP and Leicester which could have cost us if it wasn't for Ramsdale, the silly foul he gave away before Madisons free kick comes to mind amongst others. But like I said he's a young and inexperienced defender learning the game, so this is expected. He is far off from the finished product.[/font]

Lots on here are praising Gabriel as looking like one of the best centre halves in the country right now, and rightly so, he has made just as many errors in that span of games as Ben White. And both have not made many.

Ricky1985 wrote:

ohboy!!! wrote:

Do you not rate Guimaraes then?

I think he would be perfect in a flat two in midfield.

If we went to a middle three, then Gravenberch would be highly interesting as well.

Who would you target Ricky?

I haven't seen enough of Guimares to be fair, but what I have seen hasn't blown me away.

I think we've got to see what sort of player we need there. Is Partey going to be the lone sitter, as he was in a few games earlier in the season, or is he going to be part of a 2-man pivot? In which case are we looking for someone similar to slot alongside him or do we want to free him up to get on the ball more and create?

If we're looking for an all-action ball winner then Bissouma is the obvious candidate. If we want someone more technical then I think experimenting with Ødegaard as a Modric-style, Number 8 is our best option.

I'm hoping for the latter option because I'm not sold on Ødegaard as a 10, and I think he has the potential to be very good in that deeper role.

No one is going to touch him after he was arrested on suspicion of sexual assault last month. 

Oh. Must have missed that. Innocent until proven guilty, but for now he's on well and truly struck from the list.

Qwiss! wrote:

Ricky1985 wrote:

Regardless, Ben White has been every bit as good, if not better, than Gabriel over the last 4 or 5 games.

That's an outrageous level of hyperbole.

Have to agree with this. One thing to want White to be doing well another to write it into existence. He has improved from his shaky start but still has many dodgy moments, Gabriel has been rock solid.

Yeah I think Whites stabilised his performances quite well and was very good against Watford but Gabriel is only challenged by ESR for our player of the season so far.

There is a tendency for people to go extremes on White, I suppose thats down to his price tag.

Qwiss! wrote:

Yeah I think Whites stabilised his performances quite well and was very good against Watford but Gabriel is only challenged by ESR for our player of the season so far.

There is a tendency for people to go extremes on White, I suppose thats down to his price tag.

And because the White/Saliba "debate" for lack of a better word is a proxy for Arteta's reign, or whether you see the cup half-full or half-empty. 

You can say that all you want, but I think White's been excellent exactly because I think he's been excellent. Maybe I'm wrong, fine, but it's that simple.

Neither White nor Gabriel have been flawless because that's obviously not possible, but they've made very few proper errors beyond giving away cheap freekicks, and switching off a couple of times on crosses or letting runners in behind, but really it's few and far between in the past 6 or 7 games. White backed off Edouard a little too much for his goal against us and Gabriel was really poor for the Benteke goal (that one did really piss me off actually), but outside of that they've been excellent and mostly without any notable mistakes.

Lets see how White, and both of them do against Cavani, Ronaldo, Jota, Mane, Salah. Do think White has to earn our praise yet.

That's fair (vardy is probably more of a handful then any of them), but still doesn't change my opinion that White's been excellent.

It's no coincidence that Gabriel's surge in form coincides with the new partnership.

I'm not getting into an argument over his level, but I think White is just where we want him to be on the curve. There's been a clear progression ever since his breakthrough at Leeds and he has kept it up at Arsenal. I think he's developing nicely under less than ideal circumstances. Tomiyasu and Gabriel seem to provide him with a similar environment that Webber and Dunk did at Brighton.

I really can't overstate the importance that signing Tomi has had for the entire team. He's the piece that makes a whole bunch of other pieces fit together.

Klaus wrote:

I'm not getting into an argument over his level, but I think White is just where we want him to be on the curve. There's been a clear progression ever since his breakthrough at Leeds and he has kept it up at Arsenal. I think he's developing nicely under less than ideal circumstances. Tomiyasu and Gabriel seem to provide him with a similar environment that Webber and Dunk did at Brighton.

Agreed, also we moved for White at the right time. I did have misgivings due to his relative inexperience but it's also true that another season at Brighton would see us priced out of a move.