The Wishlist 2020/21: Page 79 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

The Wishlist 2020/21

lorddulaarsenal

Should never have sold him

Asterix

Meatwad wrote:
since this is a wishlist thread:

emi martinez

May as well if they keep bidding for Smith Rowe.

And @[deleted] - I also saw Luis Diaz and thought the same. Looks fast and tricksy.

Anzac

Qwiss! wrote:
Coombs wrote:
So many good options out there. Anxious for Arsenal to get moving on some of them. Not too fussed about Ben White, Lokonga, Tavares - I wanna know who we're signing to replace Xhaka.

Kessie, Locatelli, Saul, Bellingham, Bissouma...

Yeah TBF White, Lokonga, Tavares, etc all seem like decent signings, even if some are a bit dear, but none of them really move the needle for us. We need someone who'll really improve the first XI.

IF White is the solution to us playing higher up the pitch then he will improve the way we play.

Gazza M

@lorddulaarsenal wrote:
Should never have sold him

or, when you make such a visibly declarative move to back leno as number 1, get the same level of commitment from him e.g. extend his contract, or at least get a verbal indication he happy to stay. something must have happened in the last year to make leno suddenly not want to sign a new deal. either he doesn't like the way we play or he just thinks we're spiralling and wants to get off a perceived sinking ship

speedy

Gazza M wrote:
@lorddulaarsenal wrote:
Should never have sold him

or, when you make such a visibly declarative move to back leno as number 1, get the same level of commitment from him e.g. extend his contract, or at least get a verbal indication he happy to stay. something must have happened in the last year to make leno suddenly not want to sign a new deal. either he doesn't like the way we play or he just thinks we're spiralling and wants to get off a perceived sinking ship

I think he loves himself and he thinks he's to good for the team. You could see it in how he spoke about Martinez. And now you can see it when he declares he's going to leave assuming teams will want to buy him.

jones

speedy wrote:
Gazza M wrote:
or, when you make such a visibly declarative move to back leno as number 1, get the same level of commitment from him e.g. extend his contract, or at least get a verbal indication he happy to stay. something must have happened in the last year to make leno suddenly not want to sign a new deal. either he doesn't like the way we play or he just thinks we're spiralling and wants to get off a perceived sinking ship

I think he loves himself and he thinks he's to good for the team. You could see it in how he spoke about Martinez. And now you can see it when he declares he's going to leave assuming teams will want to buy him.

No credence to the notion he doesn't rate Cana? His level dropped visibly in the last twelve or so months, his wanting to leave might actually be him being self critical and trying to remove himself from an environment that caused his performances to nosedive.

Ricky1985

In hindsight, not going with Martinez is a bad decision of epic proportions.

speedy

Ricky1985 wrote:
In hindsight, not going with Martinez is a bad decision of epic proportions.

I though so at the time. I recomended a buy back option. But not many agreed. He still could have refused to come back but we'd have been allowed to sing him for somethign like 25M and just offer a salary bump and the No1 jersey.

Klaus

It's been compounded by how unbelievably bad everyone at Arsenal is at planning for the longer term.

If you're going to stick with Leno, and I still think it was the right choice at the time, why aren't you sure first whether he wants to stay or not? Someone surely must have figured that a Champions League quality goalkeeper might have bigger ambitions than a club that struggles to qualify for Europa League.

And why do you go and piss him off by hiring a goalkeeping coach he doesn't rate? For two years this bloke was a top keeper for us. Why would you try to fix something that isn't broken by bringing in someone else to work with him? And not only did we force Cana on him, as a response to Leno's complaints we refused to give Andy Woodman - who was now working with the U23 goalkeeping - a new contract altogether. It's so petty.

goon

I mean it's not like Leno would have come out and said 'I want to be the no.1 but I'll probably want to leave next summer'. I also have doubts about the stories about the trainer too, call me a cynic but it just stinks of a player in poor form trying to find excuses. Leno strikes me as the type too from his interviews, like most goalkeepers to be fair.

Probably could have kept Emi if Arteta really committed and told him he's the new no.1, but if his form ended up being temporary and then an unhappy Leno who had been excellent up until that point left, we'd be right here moaning about that too.

There's a lot this club does wrong but personally I think it's just one of those things.

speedy

Klaus wrote:
It's been compounded by how unbelievably bad everyone at Arsenal is at planning for the longer term.

If you're going to stick with Leno, and I still think it was the right choice at the time, why aren't you sure first whether he wants to stay or not? And why do you then go and piss him off by hiring a goalkeeping coach he doesn't rate? For two years this bloke was a top keeper for us. Why would you try to fix something that isn't broken by bringing in someone else to work with him? And not only did we force Cana on him, as a response to Leno's complaints we refused to give Andy Woodman - who was now working with the U23 goalkeeping - a new contract altogether. It's so petty.

If I had to guess, he's been made work with his feet a ton, he's rubbish at it so he hates it. If we can't find another keeper I'd imagine we'll chnage the GK coach to soemone he likes working with if that's the issue. As it'd be easy enough to fix.

But who knows maybe during lockdown he realised he just wants to live in Germany. Either way I think arteta and the next coach are both likely to want someone whos better with their feet like all top modern goalies.

jones

I agree, I slam the club for a lot more than ofty who loves making excuses for Arteta especially, but this is really just bad luck. Emi looked a lot better than Leno ever did but it was a very short spell, sticking with the goalie who had shown very good performances most of his time here wasn't the worst call, even if Arteta bungled the communication with his 95% bollocks.

I don't think Leno ever blamed Cana in an interview, it was just media speculation. Looking at his body of work here it's absolutely believable though, not like you could trust Arteta's judgment looking at his other staff recruits either.

jones

speedy wrote:
Klaus wrote:
It's been compounded by how unbelievably bad everyone at Arsenal is at planning for the longer term.

If you're going to stick with Leno, and I still think it was the right choice at the time, why aren't you sure first whether he wants to stay or not? And why do you then go and piss him off by hiring a goalkeeping coach he doesn't rate? For two years this bloke was a top keeper for us. Why would you try to fix something that isn't broken by bringing in someone else to work with him? And not only did we force Cana on him, as a response to Leno's complaints we refused to give Andy Woodman - who was now working with the U23 goalkeeping - a new contract altogether. It's so petty.

If I had to guess, he's been made work with his feet a ton, he's rubbish at it so he hates it.

That's almost certainly not the case. Leno was notoriously bad with the ball at his feet in Germany, to the level everyone said he's the last remnant of a bygone era - I said as much when he came here great reflexes, stagnated a bit but still talented but horrible distribution. Then in 2018 I looked at him here and couldn't believe how comfortable he was at passing the ball around, he was the absolute pits laughable really at both Stuttgart and Leverkusen and looks like he's never done anything else in his life under Emery. Doesn't fit with your theory at all especially seeing how he started deteriorating at this aspect too after Emery/Woodman left.

Klaus

My impression of Leno at Arsenal is similar to Jones's too, that he's been generally excellent with his feet. Martinez was better in that respect but there wasn't a big gulf. It surprised me because that wasn't his reputation when he arrived.

Ricky1985

I'm disappointed Arteta wasn't smart enough to see what I see very clearly now: Martinez is the far, far stronger character, 10 times better at commanding his box, and a much better fit with the way Arteta wants to play out from the back. Leno is absolutely terrible at that short passing game and always has been (at Arsenal), in my opinion. He can kick very well, that has never been the issue (again at Arsenal anyway), but his touch, weight of passing, confidence under pressue, speed of thought, pass selection - they're all lacking horribly, and make him unsuitable as our goalkeeper.

Hindisght is a wonderful thing, and we fans had to rely on that to an extent because we hadn't see enough of Martinez at that time. But Arteta worked with him for 9 months (although, thinking about it, lockdown did take up a lot of that), and the FA cup run should have been enough for Arteta to realise that Martinez was the guy to hang your hat on. He got it wrong, and we lost a very good goalkeeper that is Arsenal through and through. Very disappointing.

speedy

Klaus wrote:
My impression of Leno at Arsenal is similar to Jones's too, that he's been generally excellent with his feet. Martinez was better in that respect but there wasn't a big gulf. It surprised me because that wasn't his reputation when he arrived.

For me it's a huge gulf between them. He's very average with his feet.

Qwiss

speedy wrote:
Ricky1985 wrote:
In hindsight, not going with Martinez is a bad decision of epic proportions.

I though so at the time. I recomended a buy back option. But not many agreed.

Obviously everyone would have liked a buy back but its not that simple is it.

Gazza M wrote:
@lorddulaarsenal wrote:
Should never have sold him

or, when you make such a visibly declarative move to back leno as number 1, get the same level of commitment from him e.g. extend his contract

Yep thats the big fuck up.

Meatwad

Ricky1985 wrote:
I'm disappointed Arteta wasn't smart enough to see what I see very clearly now: Martinez is the far, far stronger character, 10 times better at commanding his box, and a much better fit with the way Arteta wants to play out from the back. Leno is absolutely terrible at that short passing game and always has been (at Arsenal), in my opinion. He can kick very well, that has never been the issue (again at Arsenal anyway), but his touch, weight of passing, confidence under pressue, speed of thought, pass selection - they're all lacking horribly, and make him unsuitable as our goalkeeper.

Hindisght is a wonderful thing, and we fans had to rely on that to an extent because we hadn't see enough of Martinez at that time. But Arteta worked with him for 9 months (although, thinking about it, lockdown did take up a lot of that), and the FA cup run should have been enough for Arteta to realise that Martinez was the guy to hang your hat on. He got it wrong, and we lost a very good goalkeeper that is Arsenal through and through. Very disappointing.

I'm disappointed Arteta wasn't smart enough to see what I saw very clearly then: Martinez is the far, far stronger character, 10 times better at commanding his box, and a much better fit with the way Arteta wants to play out from the back.

And he's not just a very good goalkeeper, he's A GREAT goalkeeper.

Meatwad

Gazza M wrote:
@lorddulaarsenal wrote:
Should never have sold him

or, when you make such a visibly declarative move to back leno as number 1, get the same level of commitment from him e.g. extend his contract, or at least get a verbal indication he happy to stay. something must have happened in the last year to make leno suddenly not want to sign a new deal. either he doesn't like the way we play or he just thinks we're spiralling and wants to get off a perceived sinking ship

i agree with this.

flobaba

It’s all rookie mistakes.

The good or bad news is that we would’ve moved on from rookie mistakes to 2nd year manager mistakes by next season.

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