Youth team development: Page 49 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Youth team development

Klaus

Probably a bit of both judging by the sound of it. It hasn't been an easy job but then again that's life. Other clubs have those issues to deal with too and they seem to do a better job at it. I've watched a few U23 games recently and it's startling how far behind clubs like Chelsea and United we seem to be from a tactical point of view.

Claudius

One wonders about our choice of manager.
It would be great to find the next Arteta and throw him in there. At least get relegated with a guy trying to come up with the next generation of tikki takka or gegenpressing. This is how every hipster’s favorite Nagelsmann developed at Hoffenheim.

mentalvortex

From what I read, former youth team player Ryan Garry might be the one to take over very soon.

He is highly rated within our club ranks and is either staked to take charge of the reserves or join Arteta as an assistant from next season.

goon

We're 2-0 up against Southampton, Kido and Moller (pen) scoring. Azeez is back and starting, Balogun has found his way back onto the bench too.

Ray

Rumours Balogun has agreed a deal with Leipzig.

Claudius

Wish we’d been able to sign him start of the season and loan him to a Burnley or West Brom who can’t buy a goal.
It is what it is. He had the wrong timing. Wish him luck

Klaus

He would never have made it in Premier League this season Claude, he would've been way out of his depth at that level. He'd have gone to the Championship or more likely League One.

Can't say I'm that fussed about losing him personally based on what I've seen and heard about him, but I would have preferred to have a buyback clause on any talented kid leaving us. It would have been worth selling cheap last summer just to get that piece of mind.

Klaus

What's a bit more damning is that it looks like Taylor-Hart is set to follow Balogun out the door this summer. If you are a club that is taking the academy seriously you can't have two of your best youth talents leaving you for free the same summer. This is starting to feel a bit like what Oscar Wilde wrote about losing parents: losing one is unfortunate, losing both looks like carelessness.

Coombs

It's especially strange when we have so many academy graduates in the first team right now. I know nothing about Taylor-Hart, what position does he play?

Klaus

He's a left winger I think, not sure if he's comfortable on other positions. He played on the right a little bit in one U23 game I watched but it was after they went down to ten men and had to make adjustments. He's very skillful. I've read he's highly rated in the academy where people expected him to follow in Nelson and Smith-Rowe's footsteps. Instead we look likely to lose him before he has even signed his first pro deal.

Nothing saying he'll definitely make it of course, the odds are still heavily stacked against him, but it's strange all the same to lose a highly rated youngster so early. We're not doing a good enough job convincing them to stay by the looks of it.

mentalvortex

Honestly it sucks that Arsenal are losing promising youngsters for nothing but it is worth noting that we are not the only club who are in this position.

I don't know whether its the football agents who are in the youngsters ears or the promise of guaranteed first team minutes in continental europe.

However i expect this trend to continue in coming seasons.

Claudius

mentalvortex wrote:
Honestly it sucks that Arsenal are losing promising youngsters for nothing but it is worth noting that we are not the only club who are in this position.

I don't know whether its the football agents who are in the youngsters ears or the promise of guaranteed first team minutes in continental europe.

However i expect this trend to continue in coming seasons.

I don’t think it’s too surprising.
I think you’ll see a lot more of this in England in coming years. What the rule changes around recruiting radius have done is created super academies. So it’s great in that you have 4 or 5 academies like Chelsea and Arsenal that are able to produce highly talented kids at scale. The problem is all the big clubs get these gluts of talent trying to force their way into the first team. And the teams can only absorb a few players, so it’s natural the others will want to go elsewhere.

We will need to adapt to to this by being better with loan system or selling players in first team faster to make way for new ones. Problem with latter is it could create churn. So in the end some will go. We just need to make sure we are retaining the cream of the crop, and selling more than losing for free

Claudius

Klaus wrote:
He would never have made it in Premier League this season Claude, he would've been way out of his depth at that level. He'd have gone to the Championship or more likely League One.

Can't say I'm that fussed about losing him personally based on what I've seen and heard about him, but I would have preferred to have a buyback clause on any talented kid leaving us. It would have been worth selling cheap last summer just to get that piece of mind.

You are probably right. It’s possible that Balogun is one of those players who dominated youth soccer with physique. You see how physical he is in the same league where guys like Patino and Salah are floating about. He’s played about a half of senior football. We haven’t seen him come back from a red like Nketiah. We haven’t seen him roughed up by a Burnley brute for 90 minutes on a wet Wednesday. Go three games without a goal and have to adapt. He’s just a hipster myth at this point.

Clrnc

Klaus wrote:
What's a bit more damning is that it looks like Taylor-Hart is set to follow Balogun out the door this summer. If you are a club that is taking the academy seriously you can't have two of your best youth talents leaving you for free the same summer. This is starting to feel a bit like what Oscar Wilde wrote about losing parents: losing one is unfortunate, losing both looks like carelessness.

That will suck a lot. Taylor-Hart looks so impressive in the first team training vids already.

ohboy

We do need to create a path for some of the youngsters.

The fact that we haven’t brought through a defender for example, with all the crap we have had over the years is damning in my view.

Hopefully that changes with McGuiness in particular getting good reviews.

Claudius

Creating a path requires player turnover. Including of our many favorites. For Balogun to have had opportunities, Nketiah‘a chances would’ve been cut. I don’t think he’s walking in at the expense of Aubameyang and Lacazette, despite whatever romantic notions hipsters harbor. So in and out for Nketiah or fewer at bats. These are the trade offs.

goon

I think you're going to lose academy products regardless, I don't think Balo's decision has much to do with playing time unless you want to believe his agencies PR spin. Both Kido and Balogun have been linked with the riches promised by Germany. Sancho, linked with £100m moves and earning 150k odd a week at 19 vs Saka, earning 40k a week at 19. There's a path to take that promises a rapid path to riches and playing time, there's another that requires more patience. Some will choose the former regardless of playing opportunities, others will stick it out.

Chris Wheatley has reported just last night that we've offered Kido a contract, no idea if he intends on signing it, but hopefully he does.

speedy

ohboy!!! wrote:
We do need to create a path for some of the youngsters.

The fact that we haven’t brought through a defender for example, with all the crap we have had over the years is damning in my view.

Hopefully that changes with McGuiness in particular getting good reviews.

Its tricky though would people actually be happy if we had a young striker play as number 2, and potentially play a ton of games in a season and get 5-6 goals in all comps. We can't expect a ton of saka and cescs that are brialliant straight away. We all want youths to come through but are we also willing to have the pateince and pay the price.
Not at you specifically, just generally me included. Most fans are ok with super talents but the tier bellow that that take time. We love the idea of bringing them through me included but is it what we really want? Do we want to develp holding for 5 years or just sign gabriel whos a higher ceiling.

Claudius

speedy wrote:
ohboy!!! wrote:
We do need to create a path for some of the youngsters.

The fact that we haven’t brought through a defender for example, with all the crap we have had over the years is damning in my view.

Hopefully that changes with McGuiness in particular getting good reviews.

Its tricky though would people actually be happy if we had a young striker play as number 2, and potentially play a ton of games in a season and get 5-6 goals in all comps. We can't expect a ton of saka and cescs that are brialliant straight away. We all want youths to come through but are we also willing to have the pateince and pay the price.
Not at you specifically, just generally me included. Most fans are ok with super talents but the tier bellow that that take time. We love the idea of bringing them through me included but is it what we really want? Do we want to develp holding for 5 years or just sign gabriel whos a higher ceiling.

I want to sign Gabriel

Qwiss

Klaus wrote:
He's a left winger I think, not sure if he's comfortable on other positions. He played on the right a little bit in one U23 game I watched but it was after they went down to ten men and had to make adjustments. He's very skillful. I've read he's highly rated in the academy where people expected him to follow in Nelson and Smith-Rowe's footsteps. Instead we look likely to lose him before he has even signed his first pro deal.

Nothing saying he'll definitely make it of course, the odds are still heavily stacked against him, but it's strange all the same to lose a highly rated youngster so early. We're not doing a good enough job convincing them to stay by the looks of it.

I don't know much about Taylor-Hart but with Balogun it seems a real mistake to have a player like that who is at a stage in his development where you are giving him some fringe first team time but he doesn't have a contract past the end of the season. We made the same mistake with Saka but fortunately we did what we needed to do to keep him, although it can't have strengthened the clubs hand in negotiations.

If a player is at the point where it looks like they're about to get some first team minutes then get them to sign a deal. It can't be that hard. If you can't get them to sign don't waste any more time developing them.

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