If this does happen I'd like to see him on the left. Auba in the middle and Pepe on the right. Sell Lacazette to fund Partey. I worry he'll be another Ozil though.

Tambourine Man wrote:

If this does happen I'd like to see him on the left. Auba in the middle and Pepe on the right. Sell Lacazette to fund Partey. I worry he'll be another Ozil though.

He is another Ozil. Conservation of matter. 

That is the only way we get the best out of him if he comes. To play him on the left and give him license to cut in.

Then saka will rotate between LW, and LB.

Still think the wages, and loan fee could be better spent on more long term acquisitions.

Claudius wrote:

Tambourine Man wrote:

If this does happen I'd like to see him on the left. Auba in the middle and Pepe on the right. Sell Lacazette to fund Partey. I worry he'll be another Ozil though.

He is another Ozil. Conservation of matter. 

That is another issue.

Bringing in Coutinho on that money, and we still have Ozil on the books

I think Bayern were paying a loan fee of £8m / season. And then Coutinho's salary is £11m a season but he took a 50% payout to make things happen. So we would be looking at upwards of £13m for a season of this guy.

It's more of the short-termism that saw us fill the backline with pensioners who have given us nothing but headaches.

You say that but without Luiz we're probably out of the FA Cup with no prospect of European football either.

Oh cool. So on that basis, let's sign a pensioner every year then.

Beggars can't be choosers. We signed Martinelli, Pepe, Tierney, Saliba and Ceballos last summer who were all under 24 or under, while also introducing the likes of Saka, Eddie and Willock into first team duties. In that context adding a 'pensioner' is hardly the end of the world.

Maybe we would have qualified through the league if we'd signed someone less clownish who didn't pick up so many red cards or conceded a penalty every 6th game (I looked this up), who knows.

Anyway, the reason we shouldn't sign Coutinho is because he's fucking awful, not because he's old.

For sure, but if you want assurances of that you'll need a hell of a lot more than £6m.

Klaus wrote:

Anyway, the reason we shouldn't sign Coutinho is because he's fucking awful, not because he's old.

It's because he's tremendously bad value for money. You don't lease 15m pounds that's going to vaporise. It's insanity. He's a decent player going forward and will instantly upgrade our offense but the business sense of this transaction is so warped that it pains me to see us constantly linked to him. Kia needs too stop muddying our name

Again what's the alternative though? Sign someone who makes more business sense but less impact? Is that any more ideal?

If Klaus is right and he's garbage then yeah, it's stupid. If he is an instant upgrade though and adds instant end product, then you have to look at it.

It's a desperate tactic but we're in a desperate situation. As long as it's simply there to support the longer term plan and makes sense from a sporting perspective, I'm not all that upset by it.

Yeah same. He was inconsistent but when he turned it up at Bayern he was unplayable. He will certainly be more useful than Ozil but I'd rather we splash out on someone legit and can sell than lease a depreciating asset

Goon, the reason our desperation persists is because we continuously make short-termist decisions. And it is understandable because we feel pressure from our players and fans to make upgrades to compete immediately with our peers. But we now need to lean into longer term planning with a view to building a squad that can deliver success over a sustained period.

And it doesn't necessarily mean not competing in the interim. It just means you might need to measure your success differently in the first 12 - 18 months until you have collected all the players you want and your manager has been able to create an offensive identity. But you have to be patient and save the money you otherwise would've wasted on Coutinho and put towards the players who will be part of your longterm plans

The inevitable bargaining has begun. Genuinely don't want us to waste time on this kind of signing. He's nowhere near good enough to actually improve the team to a level that justifies his signing. I thought he was overrated tripe at liverpool, and his washed up stints at barca and bayern just exposed it more. He doesnt fit anywhere either. Klopp said himself after flogging him - he's not good enough as a left winger, left midfielder, or as part of a midfield 3. No, no, no. Kia and raul can fuck off with this horseshit. And edu better not be running interference for spoofers and schemers or he's on the shit list as well

Claudius wrote:

Goon, the reason our desperation persists is because we continuously make short-termist decisions. And it is understandable because we feel pressure from our players and fans to make upgrades to compete immediately with our peers. But we now need to lean into longer term planning with a view to building a squad that can deliver success over a sustained period.

And it doesn't necessarily mean not competing in the interim. It just means you might need to measure your success differently in the first 12 - 18 months until you have collected all the players you want and your manager has been able to create an offensive identity. But you have to be patient and save the money you otherwise would've wasted on Coutinho and put towards the players who will be part of your longterm plans

Agree and disagree, our desperation persists because we've made the wrong short-term decisions that has resulted in us falling further and further away from the CL and becoming more and more desperate. Our long term plan is fully operational, we've got a ton of young players coming in both externally and through the academy. There is no issue there. The question and debate is about how you supplement it in the short term. 

For the record, I'm not saying I want Coutinho, certainly not at any cost. The only way I'd be moderately supportive is if we screw Barcelona in a cheap ass loan deal. They're the ones desperate to get rid. 

When I say long-term plan, I mean a plan to compete to win a title within 24-36 months. You need to be aggressively working towards that, and constantly refining your team to be in a state of competitiveness around that. Once you've peaked and lost competitiveness, you need to quickly build back up to peak again. We have a collection of interesting kids. We do not have any plan that is going to get us to win a title.

To win the title in the next 2-3 years you need money, if you want money you need CL football ASAP, to get CL football ASAP you need to make some dodgy short term decisions. The longer you go without the CL, the less money you have, the more desperate those decisions get.

Also if you want to win the title in the next 2-3 years you need to back the manager with what he feels like he needs. If that's Coutinho or Willian, so be it.

I don't understand this 'Coutinho is useless talk'

Wouldn't be the last person to fail at Barca but be a success elsewhere

Also if he was such a passenger etc. like Ozil how was he best playing for Klopp's extreme pressing unit?

Where did he say this? Please provide some reference?

Also-

RAC1: Arsenal talking to Barca about Coutinho. Loan deal and Salary will be shared by both clubs

I don't think we can afford to turn our noses up on a subsidised loan deal for this guy. I think people are forgetting that we are 8th and we are not going to be able to do much better.

RAC1 reporting means theres something to this. Kia really is running our pockets.

Unlike some I don't think Coutinho is a bad player, but I don't think it's worth paying up to have him for a season. I'm worried about the loan fee and the percentage of his salary that we have to pay.

Those are all points in favour that I agree with, but my support for this loan would depend on the cost and implications for other transfers and squad building

I don't think he can play wide. Free role behind the forward, may be he could do damage. He is not even close to peak Ozil but we need some quality in the area.

Peak ozil was 6 months at arsenal where he got 15 assists in half the season.

Next 6 months he didn't even get 5.

Rest of peak ozil was at madrid.

Gazza M wrote:

RAC1 reporting means theres something to this. Kia really is running our pockets.

Arteta is supposedly the one that really wants him, Kia is just the dodgy salesman.

Where would people put him in terms of ability in our squad? Our second best player after auba?

Probably, yeah.

speedy wrote:

Where would people put him in terms of ability in our squad? Our second best player after auba?

Our squad that just finished 8th? Hmm probably on par with guys like lacazette and xhaka, both of whom are guys we should be trying to replace

Don't worry, we'll be getting those sweet £100m+ bids for Xhaka and Laca soon enough.

I think Arsenal fans are in a bit of denial, doing all the mental gymnastics possible to avoid the white elephant in the room.

By the way this is exactly what we should do with Özil if he refuses to be sold given away for free. Even us paying 70% of his wages to have him loaned out is better than paying 100% and not even having him on the bench.

goon wrote:

I think Arsenal fans are in a bit of denial, doing all the mental gymnastics possible to avoid the white elephant in the room.

are you holding the elephants tail or trunk?

Why don't we offer Ozil to Barca to swap for Coutinho? Lets exchange our white elephants

He scored more league goals in his last half season in the PL than all our CM's combined this season