Arsenal — Mid Table Realism: Page 13 - The Arsenal discussion community: One More in the Tolly

Arsenal — Mid Table Realism

goon

Don't worry, I've dropped him from my FPL side so he'll start banging them in now.

Clrnc

Mirth wrote:
Clrnc wrote:
Its a bit sad to be clutching at cup wins as the only wins we have away from home against the bigger teams in the past 6 years. That's not where we want to be, and no matter how we spin it its a shocking stat

What's there to spin? It's a miserable stat and we've been appalling against top sides for nearly 15 years now.

We've had a few wins down the years but, more often that not, the game is already decided by half time. It's hard to pinpoint where this psychological shift happened but I'm going for 2007 at Anfield when Crouch scored a hattrick against us and it was just so unusual back then to see us be bullied, battered and second best. I remember feeling embarrassed that day and I got a lot of stick for that result because those kind of results just didn't happen to the Arsenal I knew. Since then it's only got worse, we've been humiliated by United several times - whether it's the 8-2, the CL knock out of 2009 or the time Ferguson played 7 defenders and still won. We've since lost our winning record against Spurs, barely compete at Stamford Bridge and, since Pep joined, haven't even got any good results against City. Plus anytime we play a big team in Europe - AC Milan, Bayern, Barcelona - you could be sure we'd concede around 3-4 goals over the 2 ties. We weren't even competitive in a Europa league final that was probably the most important game Arsenal played in the past 10 years. Oh but we were fun to watch right? Because we'd over commit players in attack and the opposition would just have to wait till we made a couple of individual errors and they'd score. It's been awful and I don't need Sky Sports to make it seem even more salacious. You pointed to Leeds doing well against City last week and putting in an attacking performance but, frankly, over the past 15 years there have been teams that got relegated who lost games by a smaller margin against the top sides.

Which is why I can't really get on board with the criticism of the way this team plays now. You could say that the Arsenal team of 2007 has nothing to do with this lot but I disagree - this acceptance of being second best has permeated the club. To my mind it's something that's only now being addressed. We're now very good at defending corners and free kicks, individual mistakes have been banished, we defend as a unit, I don't have to switch off games at half time, bang average players like Xhaka, Holding, Mustafi are playing above themselves and we've played 20% of our games against Liverpool and City since Arteta took over and managed to get a result half the time. For the first time in 15 years, there's tangible and consistent progress.

Long term this isn't good enough and maybe Arteta won't be the right man to lead us in 21/22 if we don't make the same transformations in the final third but at the moment if his enduring legacy is that I don't have to switch off at half time when we play City or Liverpool then I'll take it. Mid-table realism indeed.

Excellent post, can't disagree with that. It's time we face the music and stop ignoring those terrible stats.

We have been really competitive in big games now and it's really early days in Arteta's reign.

Burnwinter

Mirth wrote:
Long term this isn't good enough and maybe Arteta won't be the right man to lead us in 21/22 if we don't make the same transformations in the final third but at the moment if his enduring legacy is that I don't have to switch off at half time when we play City or Liverpool then I'll take it. Mid-table realism indeed.

Yes! Yes!

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert

Just play him up top. I don't even buy this narrative that he has a poor touch or hold-up play.

banduan

Gazza M wrote:
Our counter punching style can work against those 3 teams, as they tend to just go for it. We need to take what little chances we create though, that's our problem right now

well that's the problem now though, Citeh stopped punching then we couldn't figure out what to do.

Anzac

https://shewore.com/
Arteta’s big game gameplan doesn’t pay off – this time

Arteta has won half of his 12 games v top6.

Claudius

Thanks for sharing, Anzac. That’s very encouraging. The big difference is the defense. We aren’t scoring much more but we have gone from conceding 2,5 goals per game to 1,3 goals per game. That’s a massive shift. He’s going for fine margins which makes the losses frustrating but it’s a massive improvement so far. We no longer go into these games expecting to be pulverized. There’s still work to be done overall but the direction of travel is good.

Hopefully, at some point he feels confident in our ability to contain teams and unleashes us a little more.

Asterix

In essence it's smart management. Fix the defence, then fix the midfield and attack.

awooga83

Hanging in is fine and trying to be difficult to break down but at the end you have to open up and try to get a goal and get something and we don't seem to do that.

banduan

awooga83 wrote:
Hanging in is fine and trying to be difficult to break down but at the end you have to open up and try to get a goal and get something and we don't seem to do that.

Auba puts his chance away and we wouldn't be disputing this.

We just need to figure out teams being defensive and smothering games. Even the win against sheffield showed that up.

Claudius

Poor Auba

Wilson

https://theathletic.com/2144588/2020/10/19/arteta-should-look-to-bielsa-klopp-and-wilder-to-help-his-blunt-attack/

Anzac

Claudius wrote:
Thanks for sharing, Anzac. That’s very encouraging. The big difference is the defense. We aren’t scoring much more but we have gone from conceding 2,5 goals per game to 1,3 goals per game. That’s a massive shift. He’s going for fine margins which makes the losses frustrating but it’s a massive improvement so far. We no longer go into these games expecting to be pulverized. There’s still work to be done overall but the direction of travel is good.

Hopefully, at some point he feels confident in our ability to contain teams and unleashes us a little more.

As it stands we've played last season's top2 clubs (the only team to do so as yet), both Away, and as it stands we have the 2nd best defence behind Villa. 4 of the 6 goals conceded have come in those 2 Away games v the top2 from last season, with 3 conceded v the defending Champions.

Claudius

It starts here
https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/clubs/total_scoring_att

TambourineMan

That is a depressing stat.

awooga83

Yeah that's just nowhere near good enough and you are asking for trouble with such free shots. That must be the way Arteta is setting us up and I don't think that's great.

We almost defer to hopefully Aubameyang conjurers something up from nothing is Saka can make something happen.

Qwiss

Claudius wrote:
It starts here
https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/clubs/total_scoring_att

I mean we know we need to do way more but context is important and we've played 5 games 2 of which were against City and Liverpool. We need a bigger sample size to really judge it. Plus our shots on target are a bit better which you could argue is more important. We're 3rd in passes made too. So its going to be a bit of a process, we need to be patient.

Claudius

We were having the same discussion last season under Arteta. That’s the problem. Remember towards the end of the season I was saying we were in the bottom 5 for shot creation. The thing saving us was that Aubameyang and his mates were converting at a ridiculous rate.

Anzac

Early days but the numbers remind me of MU last season when before Jan their numbers at both ends were top4/5, but they were under performing until Fernandes provided the missing piece. IMO we have the building blocks but are disjoint and lacking dynamism in midfield & transition. Partey can provide the first part and a change of shape that comes with his signing can assist making that connection in transition.

I'm almost loathe to say it but he may need to play as DM/#6 in order to provide cover if we switch to an inverted midfield3, but with license to go forward on the ball if the opportunity presents, with one of the #8s tasked with dropping in to provide cover as he goes forward.

All things said IMO we have a better than expected opportunity to regain top4 this season that I do not expect will be the same for next season. If we are in top4/contention in Jan then the club needs to support Arteta in the market to see the job through. We cannot be left with out dicks in our hands if we do a LCFC from last season for the want of a mid-season signing to get us over the line in terms of providing either balance/capability/quality required.

Anzac

Claudius wrote:
We were having the same discussion last season under Arteta. That’s the problem. Remember towards the end of the season I was saying we were in the bottom 5 for shot creation. The thing saving us was that Aubameyang and his mates were converting at a ridiculous rate.

I cannot imagine we will not change our shape and look to go to a 3 man midfield. Regardless of the shape (pyramid or inverted) it will give us an extra body in midfield and at least one extra body closer to the front3 in open play. This should go some way to providing a solution to the issue/disconnect we have to the forwards when the twin pivots drop deep beyond the DM line when we look to play out from the back.

EDIT - Saw a comment that PEA's lack of goals thhus far is perhaps a return to more normal conversion rates in conjunction with the xG issue. Even so I think we are in a better place as a team than where we were at the beginning of Project Re-start, and the more I think of the MC game the more impressed I am by the stats despite being off our game in regards to the Willian experiment and some individual performances.

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