Arsenal — Mid Table Realism: Page 10 - The Arsenal discussion community: One More in the Tolly

Arsenal — Mid Table Realism

Qwiss

Clrnc wrote:
Walcott was used in a similar manner on the right flank.

He is just a very limited footballer technically, as evident now at Everton. I can't believe we persisted so long for him

Walcott was fine. He scored a ton of goals for us. What he lacked in technical skills he made up for in space and goal threat.

flobaba

Walcott was definitely not fine. His pace was a major asset in an era where we actually had decent creative players. Now he’s gone and his limitations as a footballer are glaring.

Imagine us having even the “good” Theo today, in this team? I shiver at the thought.

Coombs

Theo at the top of his game was better than anything Willian has or will ever do for us.

speedy

Coombs wrote:
Theo at the top of his game was better than anything Willian has or will ever do for us.

He was good in Europe when we were completely outplayed by teams. Barca players always mentioned him as the player they were 'scared of.

On the flip side in game we dominated (possesion wise) he was thr biggest liability in the team. United specifically just sat really deep and everytime we got theo on the ball they swarmed him got the ball of him and launched their counter attacks and generally won.

Qwiss

flobaba wrote:
Walcott was definitely not fine. His pace was a major asset in an era where we actually had decent creative players. Now he’s gone and his limitations as a footballer are glaring.

Imagine us having even the “good” Theo today, in this team? I shiver at the thought.

Yeah he's a pace merchant in his 30's of course he's fucked now. He was decent enough for us though. We had loads of great technical players who never did as much for us as Theo.

Anzac

Perhaps a sign of of mid-table status = as it stands we will spend less than the clubs that finished above us last season other than being on a par with MU who have signed only 1 player thus far. We have spent less than Villa, Everton, Leeds and about the same as NUFC.
That puts us mid-table in terms of investment and ensures the gap to the top4 continues to open, even TH with their massive stadium debt have done better.

Claudius

I think there is an issue with the bizarre season end. Maybe the bigger clubs will adjust after the international break and things will start to get back to some kind of normal. But there are weird disruptions happening. Liverpool looked flat through covid season and haven’t really lifted themselves consistently since. Villa pushed themselves through covid seasons sun have maintained that form. We could be in the same boat as Villa.

I would give it until winter to get a sense of what’s really happening and if any of the big clubs have fallen off. I’d be very shocked to see all of Leeds, Leicester and Villa still top 6 around end November.

Mirth

Qwiss! wrote:
Clrnc wrote:
Walcott was used in a similar manner on the right flank.

He is just a very limited footballer technically, as evident now at Everton. I can't believe we persisted so long for him

Walcott was fine. He scored a ton of goals for us. What he lacked in technical skills he made up for in space and goal threat.

He scored a ton of goals because he was here for more than a decade - he only scored double figures in the league twice. He was a good squad player but we hoped that he would be so much more.

Anzac

Claudius wrote:
I think there is an issue with the bizarre season end. Maybe the bigger clubs will adjust after the international break and things will start to get back to some kind of normal. But there are weird disruptions happening. Liverpool looked flat through covid season and haven’t really lifted themselves consistently since. Villa pushed themselves through covid seasons sun have maintained that form. We could be in the same boat as Villa.

I would give it until winter to get a sense of what’s really happening and if any of the big clubs have fallen off. I’d be very shocked to see all of Leeds, Leicester and Villa still top 6 around end November.

My bigger concern than the lack of spending & the gap opening, is that we still don't have a spine or midfield that it fit for purpose.
MU are about the only other top half club that are in a similar position in terms of their team - I just hope they retain OGS, but I expect both OGS and Lampard to be gone before the next season starts.

Claudius

We have a better team than last season though. Gabriel is a big improvement over those cloggers. And Willian gives us different options as well. Maybe someone else good comes in.

And Arteta still needs to work on our offensive patterns. We still only took 6 shots today. Every other team that won today took at least 13 shots. That’s not a quality of player issue. We should be able to fashion some chances with the guys we have.

And then you can layer on purchases to give us like for like improvements.

Anzac

Claudius wrote:
We have a better team than last season though. Gabriel is a big improvement over those cloggers. And Willian gives us different options as well. Maybe someone else good comes in.

And Arteta still needs to work on our offensive patterns. We still only took 6 shots today. Every other team that won today took at least 13 shots. That’s not a quality of player issue. We should be able to fashion some chances with the guys we have.

And then you can layer on purchases to give us like for like improvements.

Agreed we are improving, but it's still not fit for purpose, let alone the quality required to push to regain top4.

I think it is significant the improvements seen at both Everton and Villa after each has spent over 60m in a depressed market, particularly as neither supposedly has the financial resources we do to begin with. Perhaps more to the point Villa have signed 4 players @ 15m+, whilst Everton have signed 3 @ 20m+, whilst we have 1 player signed above 10m.

IF we don't get anyone else I can see PEA reconsidering his decision to stay, particularly if one of the UCL heavy weights comes knocking.
I'm also concerned the Lacazette contract issue has not been resolved.

Burnwinter

Mirth wrote:
He scored a ton of goals because he was here for more than a decade - he only scored double figures in the league twice. He was a good squad player but we hoped that he would be so much more.

Expectations were the issue for Walcott. He scored those stunning breakaway goals for Southampton while still barely out of his mid teens. If he (and we) had been able to internalise the facts of his limitations earlier we'd have been more relaxed about what he ended up contributing.

Claudius

He thought himself a striker. Maybe he needed to go find a Heskey and Owen set-up somewhere else. That hustle might’ve worked for a few years. The Giroud and Walcott show.

Clrnc

And that technically he didn't improve much at all if not any. That was what killed him. You can't be that limited as a footballer and just rely on pure pace, you will hit a cliff somewhere in levels.

Rohit

Walcott improved loads technically from when he first arrived. He was a nothing footballer at 16. I believe we did a lot for Walcott's injury laden career. We got more out of him than most clubs would have in my opinion, maximised his strength. He scored 1 in 4 games from wide. That's very decent. We needed to upgrade on him and should have aimed higher but that's not Walcott's fault.

Claudius

Looks like Everton are ready to shift him now that they are moving into first phase of their Manchester City-style revolution. No place for guys like him. He will go to midtable and below. Where he belongs and should’ve been all along.

Anzac

IMO Partey means we are no longer mid-table in terms of our midfield quality or options = game changer.
The starting XI & spine are still not completed but the dynamics have changed and the foundation laid.

In many ways this rebuild is just like the old days of building from the back/defence forward.

deardevil

Walcott matured and became a very effective player. Injuries eventually undone him and not his lack of ability. Had he played x amount of more games as our lead striker instead of Giroud, we may have even won the league. Go have a look at some of our most devastating performances and it was a combination of Sanchez, Ozil and Walcott in the attack.

Claudius

Let’s not be hasty, Anzac. Proof is in the pudding.

Anzac

Claudius wrote:
Let’s not be hasty, Anzac. Proof is in the pudding.

Lol - I know what you are saying, but IMO Partey is a proven elite level midfielder and has the potential to take the handbrake off the team just as we saw with AW's additions added to the defence he inherited.
Likewise I trust Arteta to now look to progress the team from our current compromise based style as our biggest weakness over the past decade has been addressed. I was pleased when we signed Torreira but he didn't have the size or power needed for the PL as part of a 2 man midfield - Partey does.

That said I don't think Partey alone makes us top4 and this is where Arteta still needs to work the system / style of play to maximise the resources still. In some ways I think a 4231 may well be better than a 433 as it gives us an extra body up top for us to be able to press higher much like Klopp's Dortmund, with the #10 as less a playmaker role as a supporting one without needing to be the focus.

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