Thomas Partey: Page 27 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Thomas Partey

KingslandBarge

That Torriera loan is the first non-Raul transaction we have done I believe. He had started the files for Gabriel and Partey, as well as the Aubameyang contract. Not a great start of life after. Still, there is time for Vinai, Edu and Mikel to show some capability, and I don't mean any half measures.

Claudius

It might actually be the case that we have effectively sold Torreira based on those numbers. If we’ve gone so far as to negotiate add-ons. So it’s basically a 20+2 deal.

Khanuppet

It sounds like it's an option to buy though and not an obligation. Until they use that option its just a 2M loan deal. Which is tragic.

Clrnc

Claudius wrote:
It might actually be the case that we have effectively sold Torreira based on those numbers. If we’ve gone so far as to negotiate add-ons. So it’s basically a 20+2 deal.

So we have sold Torreira at a loss, lower than what Pool sold for Brewster and United sold for Pereira.

I swear this club have some serious losers

mentalvortex

Clrnc wrote:
Claudius wrote:
It might actually be the case that we have effectively sold Torreira based on those numbers. If we’ve gone so far as to negotiate add-ons. So it’s basically a 20+2 deal.

So we have sold Torreira at a loss, lower than what Pool sold for Brewster and United sold for Pereira.

I swear this club have some serious losers

United have received nothing from Lazio for Pereira (apart from a small loan fee and getting his wages off their bill) from what I gather and it is very likely that Lazio wont exercise their buy option next summer.

I am all for slating our team for being incompetent but United are no better.

Claudius

mentalvortex wrote:
Clrnc wrote:
So we have sold Torreira at a loss, lower than what Pool sold for Brewster and United sold for Pereira.

I swear this club have some serious losers

United have received nothing from Lazio for Pereira (apart from a small loan fee and getting his wages off their bill) from what I gather and it is very likely that Lazio wont exercise their buy option next summer.

I am all for slating our team for being incompetent but United are no better.

I am not excited by our transfer progress this summer, but quick thought exercise

if Torreira was currently at another club, eg Lazio or Roma, would you want him?
and how much would you be comfortable with the team spending on him?

(The reason I suspect the deal is done is that if we closed the option now it might effect the sale and have certain regulatory implications with Uefa and revenue services)

Klaus

mentalvortex wrote:
Clrnc wrote:
So we have sold Torreira at a loss, lower than what Pool sold for Brewster and United sold for Pereira.

I swear this club have some serious losers

United have received nothing from Lazio for Pereira (apart from a small loan fee and getting his wages off their bill) from what I gather and it is very likely that Lazio wont exercise their buy option next summer.

I am all for slating our team for being incompetent but United are no better.

Yeah, most clubs aren't. You'll always get outliers like Brewster somewhere, but they're not exactly how things usually go down. People think we always sell players for peanuts, but we got 40 million for Iwobi, we got 30 million for Walcott. A few weeks ago we got over 20 million for a backup goalkeeper who had played 15 league games for us in an entire decade.

You can't expect to sell everyone for more than they are worth, and you can't use isolated examples of when someone manages to sell way above market value as a benchmark for how we should conduct business. The reality is that Torreira's value has decreased over the last two years while his wages have increased, and that combination is making him unattractive to a lot of clubs, never mind the fact that no one has any money anymore.

Clrnc

Klaus wrote:
mentalvortex wrote:
United have received nothing from Lazio for Pereira (apart from a small loan fee and getting his wages off their bill) from what I gather and it is very likely that Lazio wont exercise their buy option next summer.

I am all for slating our team for being incompetent but United are no better.

Yeah, most clubs aren't. You'll always get outliers like Brewster somewhere, but they're not exactly how things usually go down. People think we always sell players for peanuts, but we got 40 million for Iwobi, we got 30 million for Walcott. A few weeks ago we got over 20 million for a backup goalkeeper who had played 15 league games for us in an entire decade.

You can't expect to sell everyone for more than they are worth, and you can't use isolated examples of when someone manages to sell way above market value as a benchmark for how we should conduct business. The reality is that Torreira's value has decreased over the last two years while his wages have increased, and that combination is making him unattractive to a lot of clubs, never mind the fact that no one has any money anymore.

Iwobi is 28m, Walcott is 20m but I get your point. Any coincidence that we were so good in the market at selling when Raul is around? Even Martinez sale price was set by him before he left

Claudius

Clrnc wrote:
Klaus wrote:
Yeah, most clubs aren't. You'll always get outliers like Brewster somewhere, but they're not exactly how things usually go down. People think we always sell players for peanuts, but we got 40 million for Iwobi, we got 30 million for Walcott. A few weeks ago we got over 20 million for a backup goalkeeper who had played 15 league games for us in an entire decade.

You can't expect to sell everyone for more than they are worth, and you can't use isolated examples of when someone manages to sell way above market value as a benchmark for how we should conduct business. The reality is that Torreira's value has decreased over the last two years while his wages have increased, and that combination is making him unattractive to a lot of clubs, never mind the fact that no one has any money anymore.

Iwobi is 28m, Walcott is 20m but I get your point. Any coincidence that we were so good in the market at selling when Raul is around? Even Martinez sale price was set by him before he left

Raul probably has the best little black book in the business. But he was also involved in executing so,e of the most disastrous deals in football while at Barca. He might have had permission from elsewhere to stretch the spend, but he was leading the negotiations. So you might get better access but it seems to come with little regard for value

Klaus

Clrnc wrote:
Iwobi is 28m, Walcott is 20m but I get your point. Any coincidence that we were so good in the market at selling when Raul is around? Even Martinez sale price was set by him before he left

He scammed us out of a lot of money if anything. We used a ton of intermediaries in the Iwobi deal for instance and they got paid millions and millions, which is unheard of when you negotiate a transfer between two english clubs. I'm so glad that cancerous blob has been removed from the club.

Ray

Well tbf that Iwobi deal allowed us to get Pepe.

goon

People put too much emphasis on negotiation etc. Might get you an extra 1-2m but no one is going to just give you a huge fee because they've been charmed by their negotiating counterpart ffs.

tazmania

If the rumors that Chelsea are trying to get partey now and we end up with the Chelsea reject... That would be peak arsenal idiocy

Ray

naz wrote:
If the rumors that Chelsea are trying to get partey now and we end up with the Chelsea reject... That would be peak arsenal idiocy

That may be the case. If Raul was here I'd be confident we would get him, we just don't have anyone of that pedigree in our negotiation team.

Claudius

goon wrote:
People put too much emphasis on negotiation etc. Might get you an extra 1-2m but no one is going to just give you a huge fee because they've been charmed by their negotiating counterpart ffs.

So I’ve run a lot of negotiations. I can confirm that the difference between a well-run negotiation and a badly run negotiation is worth massive amounts of money. In situations I’ve been in, I’ve seen swings of anything from 10-100% in the expected value from the negotiation. The people who prepare well for negotiations consistently get much more out of it than the people who don’t.

goon

Good prep, sure. Club has has a shit recruiting/scouting team and values a player twice what he's worth, bad prep. Good prep tells you to apply a United tax on any sale when United come in for a player etc.

But when the chips you've been dealt with are two broke ass Italian clubs and an Atletico that can even afford to sign Torreira on loan until they sell, all the preparation and charm in the world isn't going to get you far. At best, like Lyon, you walk away.

Claudius

goon wrote:
Good prep, sure. Club has has a shit recruiting/scouting team and values a player twice what he's worth, bad prep. Good prep tells you to apply a United tax on any sale when United come in for a player etc.

But when the chips you've been dealt with are two broke ass Italian clubs and an Atletico that can even afford to sign Torreira on loan until they sell, all the preparation and charm in the world isn't going to get you far. At best, like Lyon, you walk away.

That’s when the prep becomes most important. When you actually know who you are negotiating against and what is at stake. Because that’s when you are able to develop relative values of different aspects of what you are negotiating and find an agreement that feels good to both parties. If you’re better prepared you should come out better off but still leave the other guy feeling good

Qwiss

Claudius wrote:
goon wrote:
People put too much emphasis on negotiation etc. Might get you an extra 1-2m but no one is going to just give you a huge fee because they've been charmed by their negotiating counterpart ffs.

So I’ve run a lot of negotiations. I can confirm that the difference between a well-run negotiation and a badly run negotiation is worth massive amounts of money. In situations I’ve been in, I’ve seen swings of anything from 10-100% in the expected value from the negotiation. The people who prepare well for negotiations consistently get much more out of it than the people who don’t.

And we've seen how some clubs pay more for players than they should, think Man Utd, and others offload players for good fees, think Liverpool and Lyon. Its not just luck or coincidence. Their transfer teams are just good at what they are doing.

Kel Varnsen

Ray wrote:
Well tbf that Iwobi deal allowed us to get Pepe.

Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

Ray

Kel Varnsen wrote:
Ray wrote:
Well tbf that Iwobi deal allowed us to get Pepe.

Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

Well, I would say its less about Iwobi and Pepe the player themselves, more about the idea of being flexible and able to negotiate a sale and use that to fund a better player. Raul got that done.

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