Autumn tran!: Page 75 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Autumn tran!

Claudius

If you see them as the best possible dealings by a club short on actual cash, then that is okay.
But one would’ve hoped that we would start investing in high quality 22-26 year olds who can become the foundation of the team. We aren’t teeming with them. Right now it’s Pépé, Tierney and maybe Bellerin And AMN. That’s a disaster!

I said before that with the Covid-19 crisis, there is a danger that Real Madrid and Barcelona are not going to pump the transfer market. We need their largesse to create velocity of transactions. So if they don’t throw cash into the system, then swap deals and free transfers start to look like viable options. In this light, one can understand the Willian and Coutinho deals. They’re not ideal given the ages but I understand how both men fill needs. I just hope they can run hard.

HomeSteak

I know Guendouzi has been a prick but making him play for Emery seems a bit harsh. Shit link...

El Neny is still our player. Can't believe Wenger & Gazidis gave him a new contract, a pay raise and the number 4 shirt 😆

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert

Not much longer until we can release our Gazidis/Wenger/Law contract and transfer handcuffs.

MistaT

Signing Willian and Coutinho seems to me like Arteta/The Board want Top 4 next year, in hopes that CL opens up more spending and signing ability. I'd be massively concerned if they think those two are going to have us competing for a title in 2-3 years....if anything, they'll keep talented youngsters from getting minutes, and in turn stall out our push towards a title run.

Claudius

MistaT wrote:
Signing Willian and Coutinho seems to me like Arteta/The Board want Top 4 next year, in hopes that CL opens up more spending and signing ability. I'd be massively concerned if they think those two are going to have us competing for a title in 2-3 years....if anything, they'll keep talented youngsters from getting minutes, and in turn stall out our push towards a title run.

Feels like the team is under pressure - as usual - to get to Champions League as quickly as possible.

I really hate what the Champions League has done to football. Football discussion is entirely premised around your ability to get 4th and into the zone to move your financial status a level. It perverts transfer strategy and also perverts how fans and pundits think about football. This week so many TV shows etc have been asking the question would you rather be Arsenal with an FA Cup or Chelsea with 4th.

Fucking hell man, we just won a cup! I'm stoked. We used to get mocked for 4th. But the additional 30-60m that comes from being in Champs League is valued much more than winning. And it dictates press coverage and fan conversation on transfers all summer.

QuincyAbeyie

Yeah, it sucks that finishing 4th is somehow better than finishing 5th and winning the FA Cup. Doesn't feel right, but lots of players won't move to non-CL clubs and there's a massive amount of money involved.

ohboy

HomeSteak wrote:

I know Guendouzi has been a prick but making him play for Emery seems a bit harsh. Shit link...

El Neny is still our player. Can't believe Wenger & Gazidis gave him a new contract, a pay raise and the number 4 shirt 😆

Hopefully this happens.

By next week we will see more movement I think.

One problem is, the CL & Europa will be occupying a lot of teams minds, and may prevent certain moves from happening until those competitions conclude.

Qwiss

MistaT wrote:
Signing Willian and Coutinho seems to me like Arteta/The Board want Top 4 next year, in hopes that CL opens up more spending and signing ability. I'd be massively concerned if they think those two are going to have us competing for a title in 2-3 years....if anything, they'll keep talented youngsters from getting minutes, and in turn stall out our push towards a title run.

In some ways it makes me worry that maybe the likes of Raul and Arteta don't see themselves here in the longer term and just want to try and turn something around quickly for their own CVs.

Ray

Qwiss! wrote:
MistaT wrote:
Signing Willian and Coutinho seems to me like Arteta/The Board want Top 4 next year, in hopes that CL opens up more spending and signing ability. I'd be massively concerned if they think those two are going to have us competing for a title in 2-3 years....if anything, they'll keep talented youngsters from getting minutes, and in turn stall out our push towards a title run.

In some ways it makes me worry that maybe the likes of Raul and Arteta don't see themselves here in the longer term and just want to try and turn something around quickly for their own CVs.

Which is fair enough, as long as their definition of longer term is at least 3 years. Most teams are built and are successful / unsuccessful in that time period. Football isn't a long term game anymore.

MistaT

I wouldn't hold many hard feelings for Arteta/Raul/Edu if they got us CL within 3 years, assuming that they also leave us with a squad capable of pushing on from there. But then, why would you leave after 3 years?

If we want that short term, CL or bust, approach we'd be better off with the likes of Mourinho, Conte, Ancelloti, Allegri, etc. But it seems pretty clear the club/board don't want those managers....hopefully for the right reasons.

goon

If immediate CL qualification is the target, would this represent a good summer?

Gabriel - £30m
Partey - £45m
Ceballos - £5m (loan)
Coutinho - £10m (loan)
Willian - Free

Douzi, Torreira and Laca alone would help recoup most of that. We'd then go into the season with this:

Leno/Martinez

Hector/Cedric - Gabriel/Luiz/Saliba/Mari - Tierney/AMN

Partey/Xhaka

Ceballos/Willock/Coutinho/ESR

Pepe/Nelson - Auba/Eddie - Saka/Willian

Shove Martinelli and Chambo in there somewhere in 2021, with everyone else being expendable, sell, loan, w/e.

It's still a very young side, low average age, important roles for the kids and the only sort of quality/experience we can probably afford/attract right now. FC Kia doesn't look that bad to me. If we can swap Coutinho with an actual quality creative mid though, then even better. Looking at the budget and potential outgoings, I think it's feasible.

ohboy

goon wrote:
If immediate CL qualification is the target, would this represent a good summer?

Gabriel - £30m
Partey - £45m
Ceballos - £5m (loan)
Coutinho - £10m (loan)
Willian - Free

Douzi, Torreira and Laca alone would help recoup most of that. We'd then go into the season with this:

Leno/Martinez

Hector/Cedric - Gabriel/Luiz/Saliba/Mari - Tierney/AMN

Partey/Xhaka

Ceballos/Willock/Coutinho/ESR

Pepe/Nelson - Auba/Eddie - Saka/Willian

Shove Martinelli and Chambo in there somewhere in 2021, with everyone else being expendable, sell, loan, w/e.

It's still a very young side, low average age, important roles for the kids and the only sort of quality/experience we can probably afford/attract right now. FC Kia doesn't look that bad to me. If we can swap Coutinho with an actual quality creative mid though, then even better. Looking at the budget and potential outgoings, I think it's feasible.

To be honest it is as good as we could have hoped for.

Looking at the potential sales, I still feel we could bring in a bit more.

With three midfielders - Ceballos, Coutinho, Partey, Xhaka is not enough, for all the potential games next year. Willock is will play a lot and you will still need at least another body.

Roca or Szoboszlai for me to finish it off.

QuincyAbeyie

I think it'd be a very good summer given what I expected a few months ago. However it's also one that leave us with very little upside if we don't make top 4. In that case Coutinho and Willian will just have been waste of money and minutes that our own players could've used. But yeah, if you take that summer and remove Willian and Coutinho, I think our chance of top 4 is worse than with them in the team.

Clrnc

It's a good improvement but far far away from what is needed for top 4 when you look at the signings United and Chelsea is making

goon

ohboy!!! wrote:
With three midfielders - Ceballos, Coutinho, Partey, Xhaka is not enough, for all the potential games next year. Willock is will play a lot and you will still need at least another body.

Roca or Szoboszlai for me to finish it off.

ESR could be the other body. If we're buying one of Roca, Szoboszlai or anyone else for that matter then we could just save the Coutinho money and really go for it. Arteta wants PL experience, maybe Grealish?

Claudius

goon wrote:
If immediate CL qualification is the target, would this represent a good summer?

Gabriel - £30m
Partey - £45m
Ceballos - £5m (loan)
Coutinho - £10m (loan)
Willian - Free

Douzi, Torreira and Laca alone would help recoup most of that. We'd then go into the season with this:

Leno/Martinez

Hector/Cedric - Gabriel/Luiz/Saliba/Mari - Tierney/AMN

Partey/Xhaka

Ceballos/Willock/Coutinho/ESR

Pepe/Nelson - Auba/Eddie - Saka/Willian

Shove Martinelli and Chambo in there somewhere in 2021, with everyone else being expendable, sell, loan, w/e.

It's still a very young side, low average age, important roles for the kids and the only sort of quality/experience we can probably afford/attract right now. FC Kia doesn't look that bad to me. If we can swap Coutinho with an actual quality creative mid though, then even better. Looking at the budget and potential outgoings, I think it's feasible.

I think it’s a good summer if

you assume money is tight, so you keep outlay low
and you make sure that gets you into champions league next year.

It’s probably also linked to signing Aubameyang. He might’ve refused a complete rebuild. From the outside it’s easy to come up with cool lists but this might be a B+ answer under tough constraints.

Kel Varnsen

goon wrote:
If immediate CL qualification is the target, would this represent a good summer?

Gabriel - £30m
Partey - £45m
Ceballos - £5m (loan)
Coutinho - £10m (loan)
Willian - Free

Douzi, Torreira and Laca alone would help recoup most of that. We'd then go into the season with this:

Leno/Martinez

Hector/Cedric - Gabriel/Luiz/Saliba/Mari - Tierney/AMN

Partey/Xhaka

Ceballos/Willock/Coutinho/ESR

Pepe/Nelson - Auba/Eddie - Saka/Willian

Shove Martinelli and Chambo in there somewhere in 2021, with everyone else being expendable, sell, loan, w/e.

It's still a very young side, low average age, important roles for the kids and the only sort of quality/experience we can probably afford/attract right now. FC Kia doesn't look that bad to me. If we can swap Coutinho with an actual quality creative mid though, then even better. Looking at the budget and potential outgoings, I think it's feasible.

Yes. 7/10 imo.

ohboy

goon wrote:
ohboy!!! wrote:
With three midfielders - Ceballos, Coutinho, Partey, Xhaka is not enough, for all the potential games next year. Willock is will play a lot and you will still need at least another body.

Roca or Szoboszlai for me to finish it off.

ESR could be the other body. If we're buying one of Roca, Szoboszlai or anyone else for that matter then we could just save the Coutinho money and really go for it. Arteta wants PL experience, maybe Grealish?

Grealish now at his price point is unrealistic.

We need more rounders players to play in the midfield three

Qwiss

Clrnc wrote:
It's a good improvement but far far away from what is needed for top 4 when you look at the signings United and Chelsea is making

Exactly. Its not enough for top 4 and its going to lumber us with old, overpaid players we can't get rid of again.

QuincyAbeyie

Obviously way too soon whether we sign Coutinho/Willian or not to say we'll get top four. United and Chelsea are spending money, that doesn't automatically mean they'll be great next season. Our summer 2007 didn't tell us that we'd go on to mount a title challenge, but it's impossible to account for internal improvements, and our team has a lot of ifs.

And yeah, much rather Coutinho who we could tell to fuck off after a season if he's no good.

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