daredevil I saw Ruben Amorim was talking about the lack of time he has had to work properly with the players on the training ground. Due to the constant midweek football, United are in a continuous cycle of light training & prep for matches. I realise this is more of an excuse for him coming in mid season than for Arteta, but wonder if there is something around not having the time to get good work in on the training ground.

I'd also say that, for all the understandable concern around recent performances, we're still 3rd despite all the injuries, the red cards and the away schedule we've had this season. Hand on heart, barring a second half of the season madness, I don't think it's going to be our year in the league (our next 3 away games have major angst potential), but I don't think that's a reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater. The deck has been loaded against us from the start.

RocktheCasbah I saw Ruben Amorim was talking about the lack of time he has had to work properly with the players on the training ground. Due to the constant midweek football, United are in a continuous cycle of light training & prep for matches. I realise this is more of an excuse for him coming in mid season than for Arteta, but wonder if there is something around not having the time to get good work in on the training ground.

Thats also true for Liverpool though.

Qwiss except Liverpool have been fit. We got Gabriel to do his first training session on Friday for a Saturday game where he was playing alongside MLS for the first time. Every week it’s like this given the constant injury issues. Arteta has said it’s challenging because there are times he doesn’t even have enough players to run a full scrimmage.
Not saying it explains all our issues, but it’s definitely a factor.

Claudius Liverpool are missing loads of defenders too, including Konate who's been huge for them this season. Everyone has injury issues, everyone swaps players in and out.

And anyway its not Gabriel playing with MLS that fucked us this week, the back 4 were fine, Gabriel was particularly excellent. Its in midfield and attack we have issues.

If we'll play miserable football every other week and need to go "I miss Ben White" because we can only play decent attacking football when every defender is fit, then the squad we've assembled simply isn't very good.

Qwiss

Right, but in midfield - whether Merino was the right signing for us or not (and it's far, faaar to early to judge), he was signed to play in a 3 with Ode and Declan Rice - we saw that midfield for the first time last week. It's December. It's okay for people to want us to be better - I want us to be better - but I don't think we should be hand waving the issues we've had either.

We've had Partey available in that time. A midfield signing was necessary because Partey can't be trusted to stay fit, but when he's actually been it's not like Merino is expected to be a significant upgrade on him.

yeah, fair enough, all I'm saying really is that things haven't gone anywhere near according to plan for us this season - and we're still third. Things are not that bad - yet!

RocktheCasbah he was signed to play in a 3 with Ode and Declan Rice

That's a pretty big assumption. Merino has been fit for quite a while now and this is the first time we've seen that midfield. Its pretty clear Arteta sees Partey, Rice and Odegaard as his best midfield 3.

Liverpool are changing around their midfield regularly too. They have had injured players in and out and most of all they have a new manager with a new system to deal with. Yet having one new midfielder is throwing us off? These are normal football issues.

And FWIW I think the Merino issue is blown out proportion. He's hasn't been that bad.

QuincyAbeyie we need a stat of % league wins with Partey at the base of midfield and Partey not at the base of midfield. The drop off is huge.

Qwiss That's a pretty big assumption. Merino has been fit for quite a while now and this is the first time we've seen that midfield. Its pretty clear Arteta sees Partey, Rice and Odegaard as his best midfield 3.

I don't think it's that big an assumption. Arteta said this, literally last week:

“There have been a lot of new units recently. Certainly, that was one. That’s one that obviously we have planned and discussed and I think they can play so well together. And they did a really good job.

“They will play again together for sure in the near future and I think they complement each other really, really well.”

There's more if you want to read it here:

https://arseblog.news/2024/12/arteta-happy-with-new-midfield-trio-doesnt-mind-attacking-imbalance/

It's not that surprising Merino's introduction has been gradual, given the injury he suffered almost immediately and then adapting to the way we play football as well as a new league.

And no, I don't think it's just one midfielder causing us all these problems. I think it's the injuries we've had, the form of our attacking players, Saka excepted, Odegaard being out, the red cards we've had and, nobody wants to hear it, but a pretty punishing away schedule this season. How many teams have had weeks like this on the schedule? We've had two of them...

Spurs - Atalanta - City
Newcastle - Inter - Chelsea

Arsenal are a big club. I get it, there shouldn't be excuses for losing games, but it's asking a lot to expect us to come out of these weeks unscathed.

Rohit and I agree with that. 100%.

RocktheCasbah I don't think it's that big an assumption. Arteta said this, literally last week:

“There have been a lot of new units recently. Certainly, that was one. That’s one that obviously we have planned and discussed and I think they can play so well together. And they did a really good job.

“They will play again together for sure in the near future and I think they complement each other really, really well.”

That doesn't mean it was his first choice 3 at all. And if he has been bought to be in the first choice midfield 3 thats a big problem. Merino is a fine 4th choice mid but if Artetas long term plan is the midfield we seen this week then we are truly screwed.

RocktheCasbah Arsenal are a big club. I get it, there shouldn't be excuses for losing games, but it's asking a lot to expect us to come out of these weeks unscathed.

Its one thing if you have issues causing you to end up with draws against Liverpool and red cards costing you vs City but the results against Fulham and Everton back to back are not good enough and you can't blame Odegaard being out or whatever else.

The form of our attackers is a problem because we don't have the quality or depth there, nothing else. Thats on the club and the manager.

All these excuses only get you so far.

Again, I'm not gonna argue that.

I do find it very difficult to believe that Mikel went into this last summer though, thinking, "I know who we need to tip us over the edge - Raheem Sterling..." Something obviously didn't go to plan and we don't know, exactly, where the blame for that sits.

IF Arteta is ultimately responsible for the fact that we let Nketiah, Smith Rowe, Nelson and Vieira leave the club and only brought in Sterling, then I would have a different view, because even with the limited minutes those guys had last season, that's clearly insane. But I do wonder whether Edu's departure from the club is in some way linked to how the summer went for us.

The summer sales we actually achieved were a big success I reckon. I sorely doubt any of the players moved on would help us much in our current predicament.

I'll repeat that I don't think we're doing much worse than last season. We've had some bad luck and just as many rough or bogus decisions, and we haven't pulled out a couple of wins. Our trajectory is only painful because of the way it's interacting with the oscillations of City and Liverpool.

Truth be told it's bloody maddening City can't buy a win now when we just needed them to drop two or three points across months earlier in the year. 2023–24 could just as easily have been "it's up for grabs now" and it's leaving a sour taste ...

RocktheCasbah To be honest, other than ESR, none of the others would really have changed anything off the bench. My point would rather be why sign Sterling at all if you won't throw him on when we are desperately searching for a goal and should just throw in all our attackers? what's the point of numbers if you don't use them, or use them so conservatively? Unless there are injury/load concerns for Ode and Rice, to replace them seems odd, and to do it with Nwanieri and Jorginho (both of whom I like), is incomprehensible to me. Put Ethan instead of Merino, if Ode or Rice have issues that necessitates them coming off, throw Sterling on. This defence first approach, while on occasion does yield us goals, is clearly not working recently.

As others have said, it's about control over anything. I read Arteta saying to see a winger track back 70m to defend made him happy. That's the crux of the problem.

FEBravo I read Arteta saying to see a winger track back 70m to defend made him happy. That's the crux of the problem.

It's so cringe. Omg.

Qwiss Its one thing if you have issues causing you to end up with draws against Liverpool and red cards costing you vs City but the results against Fulham and Everton back to back are not good enough and you can't blame Odegaard being out or whatever else.

Agree that those last two results aren't good enough but I'd also highlight the fact that they're made to look a hell of a lot worse as a result of the bad luck we've had earlier in the season with red cards and injuries. If we draw against Fulham and Everton in a season where we're already leading the league (for example), then those results are frustrating but not as calamitous as they feel now because the margin for error feels so fine.

Don Pacifico I think the way we've approached these fixtures is a bit too cowardly. We are playing teams that are unlikely to be pinning us back at we should release some of the control ball for more offensive threat even if it means we are slightly more at risk because that's what the game needs. I don't feel Arteta is willing to do that good whole game is focused on zero risk give the opposition no chances and we'll probably win maybe with a set piece. That is just not good enough for titles, maybe 1/50 you might get a perfect storm for it to come good but it's such a hard low probability outcome it's not a good approach for dealing with all the normal variance that happens in sport.