Well, we're ambitious from the Board on down right now then, because for Arsenal 20-21 top four is ambitious.

Yep, finishing top 4 is now a show of ambition, with the increased competition.

Maybe as an immediate target and milestone. The longer term plan has to be to have a team capable of challenging for the two major honours in the next 2-3 years.

goon wrote:

Maybe as an immediate target and milestone. The longer term plan has to be to have a team capable of challenging for the two major honours in the next 2-3 years.

Goon, that has to be the only ambition. Top 4 only matters in 2 ways

• as a marker of progress at some point in the next 2 seasons that efforts of Arteta and the team are indeed paying off, and
• to provide $ to pay for Partey, Aouar and the next wave of upgrades.

This is what Gazidis and Wenger got wrong. They aimed too low and wasted a decade

The board setting a top 4 target isn't a show of ambition. The boarding helping the manager to achieve a top 4 position would be a show of ambition.

Relax, we told Willian we're winning the Champions League in 3 seasons.

Captain wrote:

Claudius wrote:

How much is it Arteta and how much is it the players? I love that the team is winning but I’m struggling to be excited by these guys. You get past Aubameyang, Saka, Tierney and Leno and it it’s just like yeah they’re guys playing for us. The rest don’t leave you with either a sense of expectation like Ozil or Cazorla could at his peak or a sense of comfort that there’s a grown man on the ball.

Well, there are teams playing decent football with average players all over the world.

It's not a stylistic thing either; couterattacking football can be just as thrilling (and for me more so) as possession football. Playing at a medium tempo, playing deep and struggling to put more than 3-4 passes together is horrible to watch.

I'm not expecting anyone to agree, it's subjective, but for me Arteta is 50/50 with big questions still to answer.

Aye but the passi g out from the back is several levels above what emery achieved with these players. 

Would Arteta be willing to field a box like this in a 433

Partey - Ceballos

Gabriel - Luiz

I think that would give us enough structure in the middle of the field to control games. Then we would have the flexibility to add 6 pieces of varying attacking outlook depending on tactics

Today was the kind of match where my uncertainty about Arteta is reinforced. We looked pretty clueless in that match and didn't look too have set up a team plan to try to nullify Liverpool's threat. At least as much as we could.

That idea that everybody knows what they are doing and we go about things in a more brave manner, today didn't look like that to me. Today was the kind of Arsenal we've seen for a number is seasons. This year is a big one for me, Arteta needs to show that he can be a great manager.

This part of the Emery story continues. We need to resolve this quickly. If we can’t we won’t challenge top 4 and can’t build towards any kind of championship challenge. And this isn’t just about buying players. We have enough players on our squad to create shots. This is about fundamentally conservative coaching.

[Twitter]

speedy wrote:

Captain wrote:

Well, there are teams playing decent football with average players all over the world.

It's not a stylistic thing either; couterattacking football can be just as thrilling (and for me more so) as possession football. Playing at a medium tempo, playing deep and struggling to put more than 3-4 passes together is horrible to watch.

I'm not expecting anyone to agree, it's subjective, but for me Arteta is 50/50 with big questions still to answer.

Aye but the passi g out from the back is several levels above what emery achieved with these players. 

What are we doing with the ball once we've passed it out from the back though? What's the point of passing it out of defence well when there's no attacking phase to transition into?

speedy wrote:

Anzac wrote:

Alternatively AW sustained a career with us by targeting top4 and finishing 4th.

Can't believe people still spout this. List a few other sports people/ managers that want to come 4th specificially? You should find this task really easy if wanting to come 4th is a thing. Or hopfully have a bit of a realisation moment of how silly it sounds.

Never said anything about wanting to come 4th as opposed to targeting a top4 finish, possibly missing a comma after top4 to clarify?

AW's strategy for each season was based upon maintaining a points tally in the mid 70s as the base line, and would likewise priorities securing top4 before he looked at any other comp.

awooga83 wrote:

Today was the kind of match where my uncertainty about Arteta is reinforced. We looked pretty clueless in that match and didn't look too have set up a team plan to try to nullify Liverpool's threat. At least as much as we could.

That idea that everybody knows what they are doing and we go about things in a more brave manner, today didn't look like that to me. Today was the kind of Arsenal we've seen for a number is seasons. This year is a big one for me, Arteta needs to show that he can be a great manager.

Disagree with this - IMO the biggest difference is that in recent seasons we'd have fallen apart almost from the start of the game.

Well we replicated least seasons result and as with the previous seasons were thoroughly outplayed and never competing with Liverpool in any way. I just don't believe that is a great indicator.

The next 6 games will tell us a bit more about how much he's improved us. He dropped some selection clangers today, and that's not the first time ive been scratching my head with some of the 11s he's put out

The poor attacking play continues, everyone keeps saying we are competing in the big games but our attacking play is so poor.

Tactically last two games have not been right. I can forgive us for not creating enough at anfield but even against West Ham we barely created anything.

Klaus wrote:

speedy wrote:

Aye but the passi g out from the back is several levels above what emery achieved with these players. 

What are we doing with the ball once we've passed it out from the back though? What's the point of passing it out of defence well when there's no attacking phase to transition into?

Elneny is poor always has been. 
Xhaka form has really dropped towards thr tail of last season when people were finally giving him credit which was weird. His long passing is his best feature but arteta prefers that long ball from deeper. 

These 2 in the centre was likely to be  a car crash. Dani must have a knock and have been only good for a part role. 

The middle of the park doesn't work with these guys, wenger, emery or arteta can't make it decent. but you look at thd players were targeting. Its clearly to revamp CM. 

I think this is perhaps where we are heading to address some of the lack of creativity, but I think it is asymmetric in shape. Emery tried the same a couple of times with Ozil/Iwobi & Mkhi as wide playmakers coming inside into the half spaces.

http://youaremyarsenal.com/artetas-tactical-tweaks-that-will-take-arsenal-to-the-next-level/

If you play 343 the way we do, the wingers have to invert to play a 10-ish role, as the centre mids play a conservative role behind the ball. I suspect thats what willian was brought in to do. Pepe, wild card that he is, doesnt have the nous to play between the lines to pull strings, he's moreso the type to cut in and finish moves. If we stick with 343 we could potentially see aouar playing that floating playmaker role from the left