Captain wrote:

flobaba wrote:

Well we probably weren’t scoring many goals then, were we? Also what was the standard of the English game in general? Which teams were most appealing to you then?

Why would it matter? You can watch an exhilarating 0-0 full of fantasy, pace and verve. You can also watch an absolutely hideous 0-0 where the ball spend most of the time in the air or somewhere near the halfway line pinging between blokes in different coloured shirts.

It matters because I stated in my post that good football wins you games, AND has you scoring lots of goals.

flobaba wrote:

Captain wrote:

Why would it matter? You can watch an exhilarating 0-0 full of fantasy, pace and verve. You can also watch an absolutely hideous 0-0 where the ball spend most of the time in the air or somewhere near the halfway line pinging between blokes in different coloured shirts.

It matters because I stated in my post that good football wins you games, AND has you scoring lots of goals.

You said it 'helps' you score goals. A small, but distinct difference. 

But anyway, this is unimportant. If you guys think Arteta is doing a great job, then that is also fine.

Captain wrote:

but for me Arteta is 50/50 with big questions still to answer.

I don't think this is all that controversial a line. The difference perhaps between you and others like me is whether or not you'll believe he'll answer those questions. For me it's a yes, but let's see.

Personally I don't think we're anywhere close to Arteta's final vision, what we're seeing play out on the pitch is a mix of some pretty basic but fundamental principles and pragmatism.

The biggest thing Arteta has brought to the table so far is that, after the last few years of watching Arsenal playing poverty football and winning nothing, it's kind of nice to see Arsenal play a little better and win something. I like having outspoken ambitions again. I think Aubameyang was probably lost for us until Arteta arrived too, and it speaks to Tet's character much more than his managerial ability that he has managed to bring the whole squad over to his side so quickly and get them to buy into his ideas. Bloke is clearly a natural leader.

Agree with Capi though, it's not gonna be enough to just graft your way towards results in the long run, so hopefully he'll be able to grow better attacking football. Think it's worrying though that the few creative players we have always struggle to get a game, that we never have any obvious combinations at hand and that, in the compromise between a decent defence and an exciting attack, the former always seems to win.

To me Arteta's real test will only come when we have better midfielders and the new CBs are up to speed. I think our attack is pretty set, and he's got the players producing when they get there, but the wing-based build up is inherently one dimensional. Until we've got player who carry and recover in the middle of the park, we won't see the kind of attacking play we hope for.

If we do get the players (Partey and Aouar) and he can't get the team going on the attacking side by the end of this season, I may start to worry that we'll need someone else to take us up another level.

Artetas real test is well under way. Last season was a bit of a write off but he managed to win us a cup so he's already earned a bit of faith. This season in the league is where he really needs to be judged though and if he doesn't get the midfielders he wants it doesn't change that, he has to work within the clubs limitations and if that means you don;t get Partey or Aouar he has to be able to work around it.

Artetas real test was making us competive against the big sides. We were the joke of football and have scalped enough big teams to chnage that. Thats huge for the players the fans and the marketing department and player recruitment. I dont think anyone with their head screwed on expected us to win those big games with the squad we had and the previous 8 years of presenting our asses to big sides. We've seen a huge culture shift in a short amount of time. Credit where credit is due he has been fantastic.

Are we still poor creativly in midfield yes, is he getting the most out of Dani and xhaka, also its probably a yes.

i'm not picky about the style of football these days, just want results. shit i've wanted don simeone as our manager for years now so i'm definitely not going to be complaining about a pragmatic arteta getting results. pragmatism and poor results is a big no no though.

Qwiss! wrote:

Artetas real test is well under way.

I really don't think it is. I mean, if we scrape into the top four that'd be great, but as a manager that's not going to be the pinnacle of achievement for him, and it's not Arsenal's endgame either.

I think he will get the most of out of these players that he can, but as in most aspects of sport it's the last 5% that really counts, and that separates you from being a good manager to one of the best.

Maybe that's where the difference is. I think Arteta has a shot at being one of the best managers in the world. If he gets the players he needs/wants, that's when he'll have to prove it.

If all we're looking for is top four and the EL, then I think he's perfectly capable given adequate support, but I want a CL run and a title challenge.

Being realistic back to back CL qualification s would be huge.

Yea but you don't get that targeting 4th, you get it by challenging for the title as hard as you can.

Coombs wrote:

Yea but you don't get that targeting 4th, you get it by challenging for the title as hard as you can.

I'm sure nobody restricts themself to coming 4th. Realistically if we achieved that back to back that would be an enormous step forwards.

Coombs wrote:

Yea but you don't get that targeting 4th, you get it by challenging for the title as hard as you can.

Alternatively AW sustained a career with us by targeting top4 and finishing 4th.

Still think we do not get top4 without changing either players or formation. Without improving player quality IMO CL is more achievable via winning the UEL than us being able to regain top4.

I agree.

One thing to cheer you guys up. Was listening to Arsenal-Vision. Apparently, Arteta’s Arsenal has the 2nd highest pass completion percentage. Plus we have the highest open play xG % since he joined. So this tepid football is us holding the ball, working methodically, looking for the best possible opening. Would be good to get someone like an Aouar who can accelerate play upfield and increase the number of openings we make. If we are able to manage the ball as well but find 4-5 more openings per game, that would be superb.

Claudius wrote:

Plus we have the highest open play xG % since he joined..

Not trying to ruin your cheerful post as I too think the signs are looking good, but does that stat mean that if we have an xG from open play of 0.09 and an xG from set pieces of 0.01 then we'd have an open goal xG % of 90? So it could be that we're just awful at offensive set pieces. 

It mainly means we need to get more chances. The main thing that has killed us in the last couple of years is our lack of shot creation. I think Mo Salah gets about 30 percent more shots off than Aubameyang and Sane about the same number of shots off as Aubameyang per game. Liverpool and City are pounding the opposition with chances. We get stuck in our own half.

So while we are slow and methodical, at least we are creating good chances. But to put teams away, we need to create more

Anzac wrote:

Coombs wrote:

Yea but you don't get that targeting 4th, you get it by challenging for the title as hard as you can.

Alternatively AW sustained a career with us by targeting top4 and finishing 4th.

Can't believe people still spout this. List a few other sports people/ managers that want to come 4th specificially? You should find this task really easy if wanting to come 4th is a thing. Or hopfully have a bit of a realisation moment of how silly it sounds.