• The Arsenal

  • Official: Mikel Arteta is the new Arsenal manager.

goon wrote:

I’d argue Partey is exactly the profile of player we’re missing development wise. Lots of priming young players all over the pitch, a few older heads but very few who are in their prime years. Midfield is the one area that needs to be on point for the whole season.

IMO it has to be Partey + another, and the plan should be to win the UEL to gain UCL access regardless of top4.

As much as I agree with Claudius about continuity into the peak years, I still think there is value in targeting specific actions along that route within the shorter time frames.  As such IMO the objective of the current squad rebuild must be to regain the UCL in the first instance within the time frames of PEA's potential new deal, and Partey fits that strategy even if he doesn't fit a longer term title challenge.

To put it bluntly there needs to be an outcome to wanting to extend PEA, otherwise what's the point as we're unlikely to build a title challenging team within that time frame.  If we don't regain UCL and win something in doing so we are just as likely to lose our developing players before we can mount a title challenge. 

Quincy Abeyie wrote:
goon wrote:

I’d argue Partey is exactly the profile of player we’re missing development wise. Lots of priming young players all over the pitch, a few older heads but very few who are in their prime years. Midfield is the one area that needs to be on point for the whole season.

You could also argue that a player in his prime is needed for getting us into top 4 before the young players don't want to continue their development here anymore.

So the smarter thing is to actually go for the player who is half the price and has numbers off the charts. Take Thiago. We all know that we have a specific problem with progressing the ball through the middle of the park. He is statistically the best in Europe. The entire midfield needs a jumpstart. That’s the guy. We’ve grown fond of the idea of Partey but is he the best bang for buck signing we can make?

Anzac wrote:
Coombs wrote:

So let's add another in Partey. His value will be maintained if we perform well. You can't perform well without good players playing well, and inexperience and potential don't grow together like we imagine. They grow from having the right environment around them. The best a youth project gets us is 4th. We need to increase squad value, and ESR playing with Partey behind him increases his value. I really believe that.

Partey won't resolve our creativity issues and neither will ESR ahead of him as either #8 or #10.
Likewise buying Aouar is also a plan for the future rather than the immediate/short term.

Who would be a more immediate fix than Aouar? Its not like we can just sign Kevin DeBrunye?

Disagree on Aouar. He’s ready. He’s obviously not at his peak, but he’s already at an elite level in terms of getting past guys and finding players. He can keep getting better with us, but will make our lot look like three-legged tortoises.

Claudius wrote:

Disagree on Aouar. He’s ready. He’s obviously not at his peak, but he’s already at an elite level in terms of getting past guys and finding players. He can keep getting better with us, but will make our lot look like three-legged tortoises.

We can't afford players like him when they peak. He's at the cusp of being out of our reach, he may already be depending who else comes in. If we could get him it'd be an amazing signing.

Claudius wrote:
Quincy Abeyie wrote:

You could also argue that a player in his prime is needed for getting us into top 4 before the young players don't want to continue their development here anymore.

So the smarter thing is to actually go for the player who is half the price and has numbers off the charts. Take Thiago. We all know that we have a specific problem with progressing the ball through the middle of the park. He is statistically the best in Europe. The entire midfield needs a jumpstart. That’s the guy. We’ve grown fond of the idea of Partey but is he the best bang for buck signing we can make?

I mean I'd go into all the reasons why Partey is the much safer bet (2 years younger, plays every game etc) and more suitable for our needs, but honestly there's only one that matters. He actually wants to come here.

goon wrote:
Claudius wrote:

So the smarter thing is to actually go for the player who is half the price and has numbers off the charts. Take Thiago. We all know that we have a specific problem with progressing the ball through the middle of the park. He is statistically the best in Europe. The entire midfield needs a jumpstart. That’s the guy. We’ve grown fond of the idea of Partey but is he the best bang for buck signing we can make?

I mean I'd go into all the reasons why Partey is the much safer bet (2 years younger, plays every game etc) and more suitable for our needs, but honestly there's only one that matters. He actually wants to come here.

The reason I mention Thiago is he has specific skills that solve a specific problem. It’s about being very particular with our money in team-building. It’s why I don’t want Holding. He’s a good player with the wrong skills for us. We need to spend our money with a view to getting the highest team ROI. In the past we just got the best players we could. It’s how we ended up with Aubameyang and Lacazette on the same team.

Depends on what type of team you're trying to build.

goon wrote:

Depends on what type of team you're trying to build.

Agree. 
Every player needs to perfectly align to the squad plan. I always hear Arseblog say he wants big, skilled physical squad like the Invincibles but those players had those attributes for specific reasons. Arsene wanted a strong defensive team that could recover the ball in its own half and outsprint the opposition on counters. That needs tall players. And if that first attempt failed, then they needed the skill to retain the ball until they crafted a high percentage shot

Contrast with Pep's City. They don't need to be big. They attempt to recover the ball 50 meters farther out than the Invincibles and have a shorter distance to get to goal. Or they force the ball to be turned over and then they recycle. For this team, the emphasis is much more skill than size.

Partey would be better for Aouar than no Partey. Thomas can likely play for 4-5 years at a high level, while Thiago is more like 2-3. That's a huge difference.

As for the kind of team, I think we need to be able to transition across the whole pitch, and we have to be comfortable defending deep when necessary. This is where Partey is so good, because he can that and also carry through midfield.

What a weird experiment we've been on these last 2 years. Things feel like they may finally be stabilizing.

Feels like just writing that has jinxed it.

One contrast I like between Arteta and the previous managers is how he has moved away from youth. We still have a lot of promising young players but they’re clearly not the core we are building around. We saw this in the run-in last season and yesterday. And I think it makes sense. Having lots of kids brings volatility. Bring them along slowly, ensuring they can lean on experience all around them. No more young adult adventures

Don’t know about turning away from youth, he’s given the likes of Saka and Eddie plenty of time ahead of more senior, experienced players. Tierney and Maitland-Niles are still pretty young, as is Gabriel. He reportedly wants to keep ESR around and if rumours about Aouar are true the guy is hardly a seasoned pro.

He’s just balanced it out a little with Willian while they grow up.

We have to protect the kids. Nketiah is better off if he has good players in midfield vs a Guendouzi. Saliba might benefit from waiting for most of the season until Gabriel and co have gelled. Kids make mistakes and having them next to each other isn’t going to help them grow. I think this is the mistake Wenger made once Eduardo/ Rosicky got injured and we filled the team with younger players. We will get more out of our kids on a strong team.

Yeah, it’s just about having the right balance. But either way youth has to be a big part of the plan.

I actually think Wenger went the other way. Had no issues with kids era, it’s when he started padding out the squad with useless experienced squad players instead of brining through youth.

AW's philosophy re youngsters was that a player wasn't fully developed until around 23 when he was then ready to perform consistently. Up to then they needed to be carried by the rest of the team as they accumulated match experience. This is why I hated him making teenagers part of the PL match day squad to gain playing time.

EDIT - I think everything went off the rails on and off the pitch re the football operations (including recruiting), when we only signed Cech.
I think the situation with Gnabry was the perfect example of how far we'd lost the plot.

Burnwinter wrote:
flobaba wrote:

What qualifies as success for Arteta this season.

It’s strange but I have zero expectations and no metric by which I feel I can judge him

The five Rs:

  • Recognisable tactical identity
  • Retain key young players
  • Remove or shelve any unwanted egos
  • Restore pride
  • Record at home

We're going well on (1), (2), and (4). (5) we'll get a look this weekend, and (3) unfortunately is not going so well.

If we can shift Özil this window I'll be really happy.

By the same token you can't fault him re #3 for having drawn the line and the way he has handled Xhaka & Guendouzi, or even Ozil if he doesn't/can't fit in with his plans or roles in the team. In terms of moving Ozil out that really belongs more with Edu and Vinnai to achieve, and AW/Gazidis/Sanllehi before them.