Official: Mikel Arteta is the new Arsenal manager.: Page 143 - The Arsenal discussion community: One More in the Tolly

Official: Mikel Arteta is the new Arsenal manager.

Anzac

Claudius wrote:
He doesn’t refuse to use that area of the field. You guys ever watch water flowing down rocks. It just follows the easiest path. That’s all that is happening. We are following the easiest path forward, which is down the flanks. When you coach defense, you coach to send opposing players to the edge because the touch line acts as a 12th man for you.

We would be able to the magical zone 14 if we had midfielders who could beat men on the dribble and forwards who were cutting and comfortable receiving the ball in traffic / on the turn. Instead we have our central mids low near centre line and the strikers near penalty box with 2 or 3 opponents in between. So now you have to thread inch perfect balls to hit them. We need Partey running in with the ball and then distributing as he is in zones 11/14

Which is where the failure to sign Auoar in addition to Partey last summer has been fundamental.

mdgoonah41

we can argue about tactics, but the bottom line is:

the players dont seem to show any belief in the system
this team still has no leader.
we do not play with the requisite energy and urgency needed

a team in our position, given how terrible things are going, should be busting their lungs to press, chase down every loose ball, and find spaces when they dont have the ball. instead we're mostly a plodding team that makes life extremely comfortable for the opposition. its not good enough.

there is a toxic energy inside the club. there is no sense of urgency to get back to the CL, there is no sense of urgency to get back to playing arsenal football. the players feed off the manager, who feeds off of those above him. people can blame the owners, i think they should fuck off and sell, but our corporate culture, where the football is secondary to the marketing, has taken its toll. until someone with some authority comes in and puts his foot down, this is going to continue. edu appears to be in over his head. the people above him are in over their heads. its a complete disaster

Anzac

Just curious as to what is 'Arsenal football'?

Is it AW's technical possession based flowing rondos that saw him retain 22 consecutive seasons in the UCL but fail to advance beyond R16 & eventually saw him depart?;

The power and physicality of The Invincibles Era that 'failed' in the UCL (even if it was still the core style and players that got us to our only Final)?;

The GG Era based upon The Legendary Defence?;

The 'lucky Arsenal' of the Chapman Era based upon devastating counter attacks?.

Sicario

mdgoonah41 wrote:
we can argue about tactics, but the bottom line is:

the players dont seem to show any belief in the system

this team still has no leader.

we do not play with the requisite energy and urgency needed

a team in our position, given how terrible things are going, should be busting their lungs to press, chase down every loose ball, and find spaces when they dont have the ball. instead we're mostly a plodding team that makes life extremely comfortable for the opposition. its not good enough.

there is a toxic energy inside the club. there is no sense of urgency to get back to the CL, there is no sense of urgency to get back to playing arsenal football. the players feed off the manager, who feeds off of those above him. people can blame the owners, i think they should fuck off and sell, but our corporate culture, where the football is secondary to the marketing, has taken its toll. until someone with some authority comes in and puts his foot down, this is going to continue. edu appears to be in over his head. the people above him are in over their heads. its a complete disaster

The last bit - no urgency is my biggest gripe with this Arsenal team. Where is the energy? The only time we showed it was away to Man Utd when we played like men possessed. Why can’t we repeat this?

Look at the games when Mikel first managed us, in particular the Chelsea and Man Utd home games. Look at the energy levels then compare to now?

Is it simply a case of they are not bought into his ideas anymore?

Anzac

Sicario wrote:
mdgoonah41 wrote:
we can argue about tactics, but the bottom line is:

the players dont seem to show any belief in the system

this team still has no leader.

we do not play with the requisite energy and urgency needed

a team in our position, given how terrible things are going, should be busting their lungs to press, chase down every loose ball, and find spaces when they dont have the ball. instead we're mostly a plodding team that makes life extremely comfortable for the opposition. its not good enough.

there is a toxic energy inside the club. there is no sense of urgency to get back to the CL, there is no sense of urgency to get back to playing arsenal football. the players feed off the manager, who feeds off of those above him. people can blame the owners, i think they should fuck off and sell, but our corporate culture, where the football is secondary to the marketing, has taken its toll. until someone with some authority comes in and puts his foot down, this is going to continue. edu appears to be in over his head. the people above him are in over their heads. its a complete disaster

The last bit - no urgency is my biggest gripe with this Arsenal team. Where is the energy? The only time we showed it was away to Man Utd when we played like men possessed. Why couldn’t we repeat this?

Look at the games when Mikel first manages us, in particular the Chelsea and Man Utd home games. Look at the energy levels then compare to now?

Sums it simply a case of they are not bought into his ideas anymore?

I think this has been a deliberate adaptation to the truncated season and the return to the 3 sub rule, as opposed to the 5 subs allowed during Project Re-start. I think this was further enforced once we started to pick up the niggling injuries that saw our CB options reduced.

mdgoonah41

Anzac wrote:
Just curious as to what is 'Arsenal football'?

Is it AW's technical possession based flowing rondos that saw him retain 22 consecutive seasons in the UCL but fail to advance beyond R16 & eventually saw him depart?;

The power and physicality of The Invincibles Era that 'failed' in the UCL (even if it was still the core style and players that got us to our only Final)?;

The GG Era based upon The Legendary Defence?;

The 'lucky Arsenal' of the Chapman Era based upon devastating counter attacks?.

i would say arsenal football is not treating bottom half clubs like they are fucking 1970 brazil and playing with a sense of purpose.

Sicario

Can we make a poll on this thread to see who is Arteta in/out?

Would be interesting to look at the data.

Anzac

mdgoonah41 wrote:
Anzac wrote:
Just curious as to what is 'Arsenal football'?

Is it AW's technical possession based flowing rondos that saw him retain 22 consecutive seasons in the UCL but fail to advance beyond R16 & eventually saw him depart?;

The power and physicality of The Invincibles Era that 'failed' in the UCL (even if it was still the core style and players that got us to our only Final)?;

The GG Era based upon The Legendary Defence?;

The 'lucky Arsenal' of the Chapman Era based upon devastating counter attacks?.

i would say arsenal football is not treating bottom half clubs like they are fucking 1970 brazil and playing with a sense of purpose.

In other words we act like we are/were the 3rd most successful club in English football, put our big boy pants on, and look to play on the front foot by which ever means / tactic we choose to do so = no more passive concession.

Anzac

Sicario wrote:
Can we make a poll on this thread to see who is Arteta in/out?

Would be interesting to look at the data.

I'd wait until after the Jan window when there is no further opportunities for change / excuses before the end of the season.

Gazza M

Kel Varnsen wrote:
Why does Arteta refuse to use the central area of the final third of the pitch? It's as if every attack has to go through either the left or the right wing. Is it intentional and fucking stupid, or is he just incompetent and simply incapable of coaching a team?

there was one moment when Dani found himself between the lines in the centre of the pitch, and he immediately slipped Eddie in for a half chance. must've been some kind of major tactical breakdown

Anzac

My biggest disappointment of late has been the return to the 343 and the lack of response by the team.

Whilst I understand Arteta's reasons for doing so IMO it is a step backwards rather than forwards = reactive and cautionary rather than positive and bold. Nothing about it suggests a likely solution based upon this current playing squad, which is where this Jan window becomes make or break in terms of both the season and Arteta in getting the right player/s in to address the midfield and final 3rd.

Anzac

Gazza M wrote:
Kel Varnsen wrote:
Why does Arteta refuse to use the central area of the final third of the pitch? It's as if every attack has to go through either the left or the right wing. Is it intentional and fucking stupid, or is he just incompetent and simply incapable of coaching a team?

there was one moment when Dani found himself between the lines in the centre of the pitch, and he immediately slipped Eddie in for a half chance. must've been some kind of major tactical breakdown

Which is where I am disappointed at the recent selections including Ceballos as CM and not CAM in thee 4231. I understand the idea of retaining a 'creative' player at CM, but would rather see more athleticism at CM and creativity at CAM.

Claudius

I like the the 343. I think with the right personnel it can be very attacking. You give yourself a chance to commit 7 men to attack. The problem we have is the players we tend to select and the coach’s negativity.

Anzac

Claudius wrote:
I like the the 343. I think with the right personnel it can be very attacking. You give yourself a chance to commit 7 men to attack. The problem we have is the players we tend to select and the coach’s negativity.

I dislike the 2 CM in the middle unless the WFs sit in narrow out of possession.

I also think our current issues re width in the 4231 are based upon the outer banks of 3 players down each flank from the wide 343 = the players are playing much the same positions and roles in the 4231 as they did in the 343.

Coombs

Qwiss! wrote:
Coombs wrote:
Having said that, I don't think Arteta's going to make it. The narrative will be turned into the usual pulp fiction, it already has, but Arsenal is a mess and you'll all be calling for the next guy's head soon enough.

Every week you get proven more and more wrong about Arteta and instead of sucking it up and admitting it you are coming up with this bullshit.

I've said he's underperforming and making mistakes, time and again.

All it's really done, for me, was show how fans know nothing. Hound out Wenger, hound out Emery, hound out Arteta and pretend someone else will magically be better.

He's got to be sacked at this point, we need a new manager bounce (if that's even possible) but we're not going to get anywhere with these players. Once again, we have a "new structure" at the club that we can't really judge, and a new coach will only make it newer. Soon enough everyone will be blaming some other coach's selection and "tactics" and we'll be right back here.

What's sad to me is that he's not gonna make it to the window that will fundamentally change the makeup of this team. Yet again Ozil will outlast the manager. He failed too fast, and whoever else comes in will get the benefit of not really dealing with any of the rotters. We'll never know how Arteta would have done over time, really. Oh well.

Whoever the new guy is, I'm just not looking forward to the same cycle of underinformed vitriolic fan sentiment that's bound to materialize. I'd prefer Arsenal stand by their guy and push through the challenging times together, but shit just doesn't work that way I guess.

Claudius

Coombs wrote:
Qwiss! wrote:
Every week you get proven more and more wrong about Arteta and instead of sucking it up and admitting it you are coming up with this bullshit.

I've said he's underperforming and making mistakes, time and again.

All it's really done, for me, was show how fans know nothing. Hound out Wenger, hound out Emery, hound out Arteta and pretend someone else will magically be better.

He's got to be sacked at this point, we need a new manager bounce (if that's even possible) but we're not going to get anywhere with these players. Once again, we have a "new structure" at the club that we can't really judge, and a new coach will only make it newer. Soon enough everyone will be blaming some other coach's selection and "tactics" and we'll be right back here.

What's sad to me is that he's not gonna make it to the window that will fundamentally change the makeup of this team. Yet again Ozil will outlast the manager. He failed too fast, and whoever else comes in will get the benefit of not really dealing with any of the rotters. We'll never know how Arteta would have done over time, really. Oh well.

Whoever the new guy is, I'm just not looking forward to the same cycle of underinformed vitriolic fan sentiment that's bound to materialize. I'd prefer Arsenal stand by their guy and push through the challenging times together, but shit just doesn't work that way I guess.

I understand what you are saying, but there has to be a lower limit to what is acceptable output. It is clear that most of this is on his predecessors. In another thread, I posted 12 expiring contracts and most here want to keep only 1 or 2 of those players. That’s a massive handicap for Arteta, to have so abject a squad. But is this squad so deficient as to warrant a 40 point pace? Arteta is part of the problem. The players he picks and the way he coaches them are what’s giving us this nightmare

awooga83

I agree many of the squad issues were present but why bring Xhaka and Mustsfi back into the fray, sign Willian and luiz. These are decisions he's made that have made us worse and you could see they weren't the right calls when he made them.

As for his level this may be it, people projected whatever they wanted onto him because he had no track record so a good few took hope he'll be pep but that wasn't a realistic position to have.

deardevil

The team we had out there today is a 40 point pace team. It's a relegation candidate team. We only have 2 top drawer players, Partey and Aubameyang. We finished 8th last season only because of Aubameyang, otherwise, we would have been in a similar position to the one we are in now. Aubameyang is struggling this season and Partey hasn't been playing, so we are in tatters.

Buy Arteta two attacking players and then reassess in the summer.

jones

Coombs wrote:
Qwiss! wrote:
Every week you get proven more and more wrong about Arteta and instead of sucking it up and admitting it you are coming up with this bullshit.

I've said he's underperforming and making mistakes, time and again.

All it's really done, for me, was show how fans know nothing. Hound out Wenger, hound out Emery, hound out Arteta and pretend someone else will magically be better.

He's got to be sacked at this point, we need a new manager bounce (if that's even possible) but we're not going to get anywhere with these players. Once again, we have a "new structure" at the club that we can't really judge, and a new coach will only make it newer. Soon enough everyone will be blaming some other coach's selection and "tactics" and we'll be right back here.

What's sad to me is that he's not gonna make it to the window that will fundamentally change the makeup of this team. Yet again Ozil will outlast the manager. He failed too fast, and whoever else comes in will get the benefit of not really dealing with any of the rotters. We'll never know how Arteta would have done over time, really. Oh well.

Whoever the new guy is, I'm just not looking forward to the same cycle of underinformed vitriolic fan sentiment that's bound to materialize. I'd prefer Arsenal stand by their guy and push through the challenging times together, but shit just doesn't work that way I guess.

Emery came within inches of CL spots with a squad worse than our current team. There are many more factors playing a role to be fair, but claiming this squad isn't better than what they're currently showing or that he just needs more time when the team is actively regressing seems short sighted

jones

deardevil wrote:
The team we had out there today is a 40 point pace team.

This is what I'm talking about

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