Anzac wrote:

jones wrote:

Not that it makes much of a difference after the performance but the ball was still moving when Bertrand played the free kick to Ings for Sotons first goal yesterday. That's 100% exactly the kind of decision VAR would call against us if it were us scoring.

Apparently it's not in VAR's scope of use to check re-starts.
Here I was thinking that it was supposed to identify clear and obvious errors = not much point if it's only going to be making decisions on shit that is beyond the capability of the human eye re offsides etc.

Was that the official explanation?

It's utterly absurd how dogmatic the use of VAR is in England. The action directly leading to the goal can't be reviewed but an alleged two centimetres offside two minutes before a goal can be used to overturn a call. Haven't watched this little EPL for at least ten years and the piss poor footy we're serving up isn't even the main reason. I should be thanking Riley for freeing up some time for me but I truly pray he gets locked up with an Arsenal supporting cell mate

I think the restart issue regarding VAR occurred in one of our games earlier this season where we conceded and the same thing happened. This definitely wasn't the first time I don't think.

I definitely watch much less of the PL these days. So fucking corrupt and awful.

The ball was moving and to the letter of the law the freekick should have been retaken, but we were completely unprepared for a quick freekick there. It's such a shit job all around that you just can't find it in you to be upset over a non-static ball.

Actually no, the incident I was remembering was that goal we conceded after being robbed trying to pass out from a goal kick. The guy who made the tackle ran into the box before he should have done but it wasn't looked at by VAR because of the same reason.

Not only did they not even bother to review Southampton’s goal, but then when we scored, automatically they started a VAR check

Right now we need all the luck we can get, but we are consistently getting shafted from all angles

ohboy!!! wrote:

Not only did they not even bother to review Southampton’s goal, but then when we scored, automatically they started a VAR check

Right now we need all the luck we can get, but we are consistently getting shafted from all angles

Exactly. I want Emery out but that doesn't mean I'm going to be ignore the horseshit calls we get against us literally every single week. Refs don't even bother covering their bias up that call against Chambers for Sokratis' goal vs Palace was as definitive as you'll find. I'm serious when I'm saying that even the instances and players named and convicted in court during Calciopoli weren't as blatantly obvious as some of the calls we've had against us this season.

It has felt like a very pro-Liverpool and Spuds and anti-City and Arsenal season for VAR.

Klaus wrote:

The ball was moving and to the letter of the law the freekick should have been retaken, but we were completely unprepared for a quick freekick there. It's such a shit job all around that you just can't find it in you to be upset over a non-static ball.

And in the last match we fell asleep from a throw in and conceded too. 

Mentally the players are on holidays

Zero urgency about them. No one takes responsibility. Just watch Bellerin at the freekick. He sees Bertrand asking to take a quick freekick and he still doesn't react. Instead he's trying to argue with Stuart Attwell while the play is being restarted two yards from him. You sabotage that fucking freekick if you have any brains whatsoever, prevent them from pulling a fast one on us.

I do wonder if a loss would have ended it for him. The crowd reaction would have been brutal.

Surely a 1-5 would have reduced his span, but even with a result like that they would not have sacked him. The club has the reaction speed of a turtle

Or a tortoise - they're even slower.

Clrnc wrote:

Klaus wrote:

The ball was moving and to the letter of the law the freekick should have been retaken, but we were completely unprepared for a quick freekick there. It's such a shit job all around that you just can't find it in you to be upset over a non-static ball.

And in the last match we fell asleep from a throw in and conceded too. 

Mentally the players are on holidays

Last season we conceded a goal from an illegal throw-in where the player had his foot over the line, but again VAR doesn't do re-starts.

It does restarts on penalties if the goalkeeper has moved off the line, doesn't it?

For those who didn't catch the match, the stats here are ugly.

https://understat.com/match/11763

I'm scared of looking for a chalkboard.

Klaus wrote:

Zero urgency about them. No one takes responsibility. Just watch Bellerin at the freekick. He sees Bertrand asking to take a quick freekick and he still doesn't react. Instead he's trying to argue with Stuart Attwell while the play is being restarted two yards from him. You sabotage that fucking freekick if you have any brains whatsoever, prevent them from pulling a fast one on us.

He had a great value at one point and all the signs of a slump were coming. We really should have cashed in. Remember he was valued at 50m years ago when fees weren't as crazy. Theres tons of athletes that give up the vegan diet when there performance drops but he's just stuck with it. 

Djokovic went from being ranked 1st to been ranked 22nd when he went vegan. He reintroduced fish (maybe eggs aswell I'm not sure) and then just shot back up. Theres tons of other examples.

Guy has been out for a year with injury. I'm not saying he hasn't lost something or that it's not down to his vegan diet or w/e, but there's a much simpler explanation as to why he might be a little rusty right now.

speedy wrote:

Klaus wrote:

Zero urgency about them. No one takes responsibility. Just watch Bellerin at the freekick. He sees Bertrand asking to take a quick freekick and he still doesn't react. Instead he's trying to argue with Stuart Attwell while the play is being restarted two yards from him. You sabotage that fucking freekick if you have any brains whatsoever, prevent them from pulling a fast one on us.

He had a great value at one point and all the signs of a slump were coming. We really should have cashed in. Remember he was valued at 50m years ago when fees weren't as crazy. Theres tons of athletes that give up the vegan diet when there performance drops but he's just stuck with it. 

Djokovic went from being ranked 1st to been ranked 22nd when he went vegan. He reintroduced fish (maybe eggs aswell I'm not sure) and then just shot back up. Theres tons of other examples.

Out of curiosity, what other athletes? There's a documentary on Netflix - Game Changers - that claims the exact opposite.

Mirth wrote:

speedy wrote:

He had a great value at one point and all the signs of a slump were coming. We really should have cashed in. Remember he was valued at 50m years ago when fees weren't as crazy. Theres tons of athletes that give up the vegan diet when there performance drops but he's just stuck with it. 

Djokovic went from being ranked 1st to been ranked 22nd when he went vegan. He reintroduced fish (maybe eggs aswell I'm not sure) and then just shot back up. Theres tons of other examples.

Out of curiosity, what other athletes? There's a documentary on Netflix - Game Changers - that claims the exact opposite.

They made a ton of stuff up, you can't actually believe that guy went from being able to do 10 minutes on the battle ropes to 60 minutes by eating lettuce.

If you're intrested in learning more the joe rogan podcast episode #1389 With Chris Kreeser goes into a deep breakdown of the science of that terrible documentary.
The strong guy in the documentary built his entire physique on steroids and beef and he's not nearly the worlds strongest guy. And hes only famous for being vegan. He's munching on steaks justs not on insta.

Nate Diaz eats eggs and fish, because he knows some lettuce isn't going to cut it. They make out like hes vegan, the williams sisters aren't vegan it just shows them while discussing vegans to trick you into thinking that. The bloods that have the fat, you get very simular after advacado and nuts, or any one the fake burgers ect. Those fake vegan burgers ect have the same effect they'll have a shit ton if cheap oils to make them taste nice. Intresting if you pick the cheapest dog food in the supermarket and compair it to "ultimate burger" label its tons of the same shit to make things that shouldnt taste like meat taste like meat.

Klaus wrote:

Speedy: Isn't there a documented delayed drop-off effect when people go vegan too? Something about how a high omega-6 diet initially masks energy deficiencies? I remember reading an extensive article about this somewhere, years back. They used Carl Lewis as an example, who had the best year of his career right when he was going vegan, but after that he dropped like a stone and never got close to his old self again. He lost muscle mass and kept picking up the kind of injuries that eventually retired him from track and field altogether. He didn't even qualify for the Olympics as a sprinter in his second year on a vegetable diet, and that was after shattering several world records just 8 months before.

Yea people can get a boost initially but some of it is often from the introduction of whole foods and not just McDonalds everday. But whole foods including meat is best.  The steroids Lewis was on peak cholesterol and in the volumes he was taking them he probably though it was best to reduce some meat consumption. But you have to remember he still has all the benefits of meat in his system at that point. Then longer he keeps meat out the shitter he becomes. And he can look forward to his impaired cognitive function  when hes older unless hes supplementing correctly or eating his own shit like a monkey does.

It's very difficult to eat a Vegan diet and compete at the top level and impossible for many. 

EDIT Omegas at the right level for the right body weight can provide a motivational boost, some nutritionists will use these suplements in high doses initially to boost motivation and help create behaviour change. Although specifics are outside my area of expertice.

Shady wrote:

I do wonder if a loss would have ended it for him. The crowd reaction would have been brutal.

Crowd booed at the end anyway. I think maybe the refs performance might have acted as cover for Emery on it though.

Klaus wrote:

Zero urgency about them. No one takes responsibility. Just watch Bellerin at the freekick. He sees Bertrand asking to take a quick freekick and he still doesn't react. Instead he's trying to argue with Stuart Attwell while the play is being restarted two yards from him. You sabotage that fucking freekick if you have any brains whatsoever, prevent them from pulling a fast one on us.

I thought the free was bullshit but what drove me mad about our players was that they got a free in pretty much the same position but on the opposite side a couple of minutes later and none of ours picked up the ball. Once that decision was given you need to pick the ball up and make a point of it every single free kick.

goon wrote:

Guy has been out for a year with injury. I'm not saying he hasn't lost something or that it's not down to his vegan diet or w/e, but there's a much simpler explanation as to why he might be a little rusty right now.

He was lightening quick people couldn't work out if him or theo was faster. And lost that at 22 pre injury i've never seen that happen it's not normal development. When something abnormal like that happens it's worth looking at specific factors.

Qwiss! wrote:

Klaus wrote:

Zero urgency about them. No one takes responsibility. Just watch Bellerin at the freekick. He sees Bertrand asking to take a quick freekick and he still doesn't react. Instead he's trying to argue with Stuart Attwell while the play is being restarted two yards from him. You sabotage that fucking freekick if you have any brains whatsoever, prevent them from pulling a fast one on us.

I thought the free was bullshit but what drove me mad about our players was that they got a free in pretty much the same position but on the opposite side a couple of minutes later and none of ours picked up the ball. Once that decision was given you need to pick the ball up and make a point of it every single free kick.

Absolutely. Who was it that Bergkamp got sent off when we played Newcastle and he took a quick freekick straight at someone who didn't have time to get out of the way? I'm almost certain someone clattered Lauren first to cause the freekick and then picked up a second yellow seconds later due to blocking the freekick and was sent marching. Bobby Robson was livid haha.

Edit: Seems to have been Laurent Robert: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/united-fall-for-two-card-trick-x20vxk7q9nb

We need to get on opponents nerves more like that. Dennis could be such an evil shit. It was glorious to see.

In fairness to our players, we did try that trick 2 or 3 times later in the match and the idiot ref asked for it to be retaken every single time.

Klaus wrote:

Qwiss! wrote:

I thought the free was bullshit but what drove me mad about our players was that they got a free in pretty much the same position but on the opposite side a couple of minutes later and none of ours picked up the ball. Once that decision was given you need to pick the ball up and make a point of it every single free kick.

Absolutely. Who was it that Bergkamp got sent off when we played Newcastle and he took a quick freekick straight at someone who didn't have time to get out of the way? I'm almost certain someone clattered Lauren first to cause the freekick and then picked up a second yellow seconds later due to blocking the freekick and was sent marching. Bobby Robson was livid haha.

Edit: Seems to have been Laurent Robert: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/united-fall-for-two-card-trick-x20vxk7q9nb

We need to get on opponents nerves more like that. Dennis could be such an evil shit. It was glorious to see.

Exactly. Soton were doing that, they were complaining about the quick frees we took and rightly so, thats their job. Its the refs job then to do the right thing. Our lot are absolutely spineless, especially our defenders. I can't believe how quiet Sok and Luiz are in these situations, you'd expect a couple of cheaty, experienced centre halves to have way more nous in these situations. Its something we lack across the board and its not good for the young players. If we get Arteta in the summer at least he'd fix that.

Luiz is a clown, but it's Sokratis and Tierney who muck that one up in my opinion. Sok in particular is so painfully slow on the uptake, and Tierney only adjusts after he has moved. There's no reason for them to be that deep and Luiz realises that we're about to get dispossessed. If the defence pushes up Southampton can't just ping a cross into the box and create a shot on target. Ings would have been offside on the freekick too if they had just followed Luiz, but Sokratis is once again dragging his fat butt. It's a weird example for Carragher to pick, but maybe this is why he was never a particularly good centreback.

Carragher is right there. You don't push up on your own when the play is out on the wing like that. Even if theres no free they could have ran down the wing and played a similar ball and Luiz would still have been in no mans land. Sok had a worse game but thats just brainless defending from Luiz there.

Not sure what you think Tierney does wrong there either, he was obviously at fault for the pen but he's fine there.

Look at the laughable flight of Ings. No way in hell is that a pen contact or not

Qwiss and Klaus I think you guys are both right. Theres 2 fine ways to defend that situation and with cohesion either way would be fine. That back 4 have played F-all games together so they dont know what each other is going to do and that's just gonna take time. It's not going to be instinctive even with the best manager in the world it wouldn't be yet.

You could look at Luiz and say hes not on the same page as Sok and visa versa.