Champions League 19/20: Page 78 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Champions League 19/20

Mirth

Yeah, i don't buy that the Europa league is harder. The FA Cup semi finalists this year were Chelsea, United, Arsenal and City - those are slightly tougher opponents than Inter, United, Sevilla and Shaktar

jones

Europa League is far more rounds and games. We had three tries and couldn't win it once, we won the FA Cup four times in seven years.

Doesn't matter which is harder, its not a tin pot competition is all I'm saying. We could play our best team and eight or nine times out of ten we wouldn't have won it against this Sevilla team.

Mirth

The early rounds of the Europa league and FA cup are pretty irrelevant though and it's only when you get to the quarter finals for both competitions that you even begin to think about playing your best team. We had 8 tries to win the FA cup between 2005 and 2014 and we couldn't win it once, despite being a Champions League team. We could have played our best team and nine out of 10 times we wouldn't be getting past Manchester City. Etc. I think the main advantage of the EL is a pragmatic one - the prize money is substantially larger and you can qualify for the CL through it, therefore - by definition - it's more valuable for what it provides.

In every other sense, these arguments are pretty pointless. Both competitions are firmly in the second tier of competitions that top clubs look to win but I'd happily win either one of them because I love cup finals.

QuincyAbeyie

Clrnc wrote:
Everytime someone says that I feel even more sad we can't even win the cup in 3 tries despite our best. Our level is way below Europa.

How is our level way below Europa when we got to the final just last season?

jones wrote:
Europa League is far more rounds and games. We had three tries and couldn't win it once, we won the FA Cup four times in seven years.

Doesn't matter which is harder, its not a tin pot competition is all I'm saying. We could play our best team and eight or nine times out of ten we wouldn't have won it against this Sevilla team.

I agree that it's a hard competition to win, but if you're being literal about Arsenal losing eight or nine times if we played Sevilla ten times I must disagree.

goon

jones wrote:
Europa League is far more rounds and games. We had three tries and couldn't win it once, we won the FA Cup four times in seven years.

Doesn't matter which is harder, its not a tin pot competition is all I'm saying. We could play our best team and eight or nine times out of ten we wouldn't have won it against this Sevilla team.

In our last 4 attempts we got to two finals and a semi-final without putting in a great deal of effort.

I'd celebrate winning the EL, it's still a trophy and if you're in it that's where you deserve to be. But for me personally there no getting around the fact that it's quite literally a second tier competition. Unlike the FA Cup, the best teams are not in it because they're in something better.

Claudius

The FA Cup is won by the best teams pretty much every year this millennium. They are not focused on something else. And even then, what has been our record in the last 4 attempts?

jones

goon wrote:
jones wrote:
Europa League is far more rounds and games. We had three tries and couldn't win it once, we won the FA Cup four times in seven years.

Doesn't matter which is harder, its not a tin pot competition is all I'm saying. We could play our best team and eight or nine times out of ten we wouldn't have won it against this Sevilla team.

In our last 4 attempts we got to two finals and a semi-final without putting in a great deal of effort.

I'd celebrate winning the EL, it's still a trophy and if you're in it that's where you deserve to be. But for me personally there no getting around the fact that it's quite literally a second tier competition. Unlike the FA Cup, the best teams are not in it because they're in something better.

That's not totally true though is it. I'd rather finish 3rd in the CL group stages and win the EL than drop out in the CL Ro16. Plenty of serious teams play in the EL plus loads of overachievers like Frankfurt last year who kicked out Inter Benfica Shakhtar Lazio etc.

The EL is a lot more valuable than the FA Cup. Who gives a fuck that City and Liverpool play in the latter.

QuincyAbeyie

Why does it matter that serious teams play in the EL if nobody gives a fuck that City and Liverpool play in the FA Cup?

Coombs

Different competitions, both good to win like anything is, but Arsenal have a serious lack of European hardware. As a fan, I want to make some history in that regard.

jones

Quincy Abeyie wrote:
Why does it matter that serious teams play in the EL if nobody gives a fuck that City and Liverpool play in the FA Cup?

Because people act like only shit teams play in the second rate competition EL, whereas people love to mention City and Liverpool in the FA Cup like we don't play them four times in the league every season. International always beats domestic football for me, before UEFA redesigned both competitions the UEFA Cup was plenty prestigious by itself too. Then there's the fact Coombs mentions our European pedigree is embarrassing for a club with our domestic success.

Meatwad

jones wrote:
goon wrote:
In our last 4 attempts we got to two finals and a semi-final without putting in a great deal of effort.

I'd celebrate winning the EL, it's still a trophy and if you're in it that's where you deserve to be. But for me personally there no getting around the fact that it's quite literally a second tier competition. Unlike the FA Cup, the best teams are not in it because they're in something better.

That's not totally true though is it. I'd rather finish 3rd in the CL group stages and win the EL than drop out in the CL Ro16. Plenty of serious teams play in the EL plus loads of overachievers like Frankfurt last year who kicked out Inter Benfica Shakhtar Lazio etc.

The EL is a lot more valuable than the FA Cup. Who gives a fuck that City and Liverpool play in the latter.

arsenal is a club without european pedigree, top or 2nd tier so it's like the supporters are conditioned to devalue it in favor of domestic competitions.

Claudius

You guys 'rooting' for anyone tonight?
I don't much like either team but would like to see Mbappé and Gnabry have good games. Otherwise the stadium can cave in like Batman The Dark Knight Rises and the Europa League would be the main cup next year.

Klaus

I'm rooting for a couple of ACL injuries for each team.

Mirth

Don't really care but I can't bear to see Muller smug again.

Clrnc

jones wrote:
Quincy Abeyie wrote:
Why does it matter that serious teams play in the EL if nobody gives a fuck that City and Liverpool play in the FA Cup?

Because people act like only shit teams play in the second rate competition EL, whereas people love to mention City and Liverpool in the FA Cup like we don't play them four times in the league every season. International always beats domestic football for me, before UEFA redesigned both competitions the UEFA Cup was plenty prestigious by itself too. Then there's the fact Coombs mentions our European pedigree is embarrassing for a club with our domestic success.

Well said. Some of the replies are truly mind boggling. You won't find any other English club fans who belittle the Europa League this badly. Chelsea and United fans were delighted when they won it, the prestige of the final is on a different level to the FA Cup not to mention the money and reward etc. I was desperate for us to win in Baku. We have absolutely zero european pedigree and have lost 3 European finals in a row. The reputation of winning a Europa League compared to FA Cup is different too.

Just look at alot of the FA Cup finals, some teams don't even face a single top club en route to the final and most big clubs put 2nd teams until the semi finals. We can't even win Olympiacos over 2 legs ffs despite trying everything. Sevilla literally beat teams that's champions league standards to win this season, teams we'd struggle to overcome as well.

QuincyAbeyie

Everyone was desperate to win in Baku, you get into the CL by winning it. I still think it's unfair to talk about not having won it when most years we haven't been in the competition because we placed too high in the table and didn't do badly enough in the group stages of the CL. Clearly we'd have more "European pedigree" if we got relegated to the EL earlier, but that's not what you want.

Clrnc

Quincy Abeyie wrote:
Everyone was desperate to win in Baku, you get into the CL by winning it. I still think it's unfair to talk about not having won it when most years we haven't been in the competition because we placed too high in the table and didn't do badly enough in the group stages of the CL. Clearly we'd have more "European pedigree" if we got relegated to the EL earlier, but that's not what you want.

Yeah, it's also unfair to say FA Cup is much harder just because you have Liverpool and City in it when most of the winners don't even face them all these years. In the earlier years its even worse, only United were a challenge to us.

We have failed to win in the Europa Final Twice, Semi once etc despite taking it seriously. That's my point. And yes we also do take the CL seriously whenever we are in it.

goon

Clrnc wrote:
jones wrote:
Because people act like only shit teams play in the second rate competition EL, whereas people love to mention City and Liverpool in the FA Cup like we don't play them four times in the league every season. International always beats domestic football for me, before UEFA redesigned both competitions the UEFA Cup was plenty prestigious by itself too. Then there's the fact Coombs mentions our European pedigree is embarrassing for a club with our domestic success.

Well said. Some of the replies are truly mind boggling. You won't find any other English club fans who belittle the Europa League this badly. Chelsea and United fans were delighted when they won it, the prestige of the final is on a different level to the FA Cup not to mention the money and reward etc. I was desperate for us to win in Baku. We have absolutely zero european pedigree and have lost 3 European finals in a row. The reputation of winning a Europa League compared to FA Cup is different too.

Just look at alot of the FA Cup finals, some teams don't even face a single top club en route to the final and most big clubs put 2nd teams until the semi finals. We can't even win Olympiacos over 2 legs ffs despite trying everything. Sevilla literally beat teams that's champions league standards to win this season, teams we'd struggle to overcome as well.

United beat Saint-Étienne, Rostov, Anderlecht, Celta Vigo en route to the final a couple of years ago.

Last year Chelsea beat Malmo, Kiev, Salvia Prague and Frankfurt en route to the final.

These are clubs who wouldn't get out of the CL group stage. When you've spent years playing Barcelona, Bayern, Madrid, Juve, Dortmund etc, it's not really that much of a surprise that some fans turn their nose up at this.

goon

Claudius wrote:
You guys 'rooting' for anyone tonight?

I hate to say it, but Bayern for me. Can't stand them, but the longer Mbappe, Neymar and PSG are prevented from winning the CL the better.

Ray

Would like to see PSG win it for Ligue 1 and for breaking up the Barca monopoly on talent when they went for Neymar. Having said that Tuchels choice of midfield is horrid.

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