Don't mention the VAR

Mirth

[size=small]Creating a thread to track the inevitable [font=Arial]controversies [/font]that VAR will generate this season. [/size]

[size=small]On the subject of the City v Spurs game: [/size]

[font=Arial]But one thing VAR has done – and through no fault of its own – is to expose that some of the laws governing the game are not fit for purpose, and that includes some that have been recently changed. There are too many grey areas where only black and white should exist. Referees, lambasted in a culture of abuse that only serves to alienate and disenfranchise them, were operating within a flawed system.

Getting those laws addressed should have been a priority before VAR’s introduction. If the Premier League is so important that every decision must be right, it is not good enough for our game to learn on the job through trial and error. It is not good enough to be experimented on.[/font]

goon

Which laws is it talking about when it mentions grey areas? Because the new rule that everyone is whinging about has turned a grey area into black and white.

Perhaps it's the fans that need to adjust rather than the rules (or just the rules)?

Bold Tone

Spain ( 10 March 2019 ).
The referee calls the VAR but there was no one in the video room.
Played then continued on!
https://www.calciomercato.com/en/news/from-spain-the-referee-calls-the-var-but-no-one-is-there-video-95501

31/12/2018.
VAR incidents that have been criticised the most in the first half of La Liga 2018/2019.
https://www.marca.com/en/football/spanish-football/2018/12/31/5c23901922601dcd1f8b460a.html

MuswellHillGooner

All 20 Premier League grounds are equipped with the technology which will allow decisions to be assessed from the VAR hub in Stockley Park, west London.

VAR will be used for 'clear and obvious errors' in four areas: - Goals, penalties, straight red cards and mistaken identity.

This will lead to changes in the viewing experience for fans:

Television: Viewers will be able to see what the video assistant referees watch, including an 'over the shoulder' angle of the officials in the studio. The VAR team will be announced in advance, as per the on-field refereeing group. Broadcasters will be keen matches do not extend too much over the regular 90 minutes, particularly Sky when it has double-headers, with matches kicking off at 14:00 and 16:00 BST.

Stadium: Information about a VAR check will appear on the big screens at the 18 grounds which are equipped with them ie 'Checking red card'. When a decision is overturned, a video of the incident will be shown when appropriate. At the two grounds which do not have screens - Anfield (Liverpool) and Old Trafford (Manchester United), announcements will be made via the scoreboard and PA.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49057675

MuswellHillGooner

Video Assistant Refereeing is being used for the first time in the Premier League.
On both weekends of the season so far the technology has played a huge role.
Man City were denied against West Ham before VAR cancelled a winner vs Spurs.
Mark Clattenburg, Jamie Redknapp and Martin Keown discuss :
https://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/sport/football/article-7369625/How-change-VAR-Sportsmail-experts-debate-hot-topic.html

Muswell Hill Gooner wrote:
USING the tight offside given against Raheem Sterling last weekend as an example, it can be shown how VAR has a margin of error that means officials sometimes cannot be certain 1 if someone is offside.

Imaging software showed Sterling to be 2.4cm offside ( just under an inch). Sterling was moving at about 14.5mph (23.4kph). Cameras used by VAR run at 50 frames per second. In the 0.02 secs between frames, he would move 13cm. If he was 2.4cm offside at Frame B that means he was 10.6cm onside at Frame A when the 2 ball was about to be played.

VAR has to use the frame which shows the ball has categorically been played but the exact ‘first point of contact’ is likely to have been between Frame A and Frame B. At an unknown point between those frames, Sterling went from 3 onside to offside.

VAR cannot have known for certain when the ball was played so there is a 13cm margin of error on a decision which ruled Sterling 2.4cm offside. It could be bigger than that too. The faster players move in opposite directions, the larger the margin of error.

The Mail on Sunday 18/08/2019
via https://www.pressreader.com/

goon

I mentioned after the Sterling call that they should adjust the paramaters, taking account the margin of error seems like a good way to do that, i.e. a player must be at least 15cm offside or whatever a reasonable figure is before it's called.

Klaus

I don't think it should matter whether you're 1 meter or 1 centimeter offside. If we actually have the technology to call it then let's call it. If there is an error margin due to the framerate like that article suggests, however, then why not just call every situation that is affected by it as "being in line"? If we've reached the limits of both human perception and technology it would stand to reason that offside can't be called fairly, and the goal should be given.

Meatwad

just adjust for the margin of error and keep it going.

i'm the type that always hated a good arsenal goal being disallowed more than i liked a bad goal being allowed, so i've been on board the VAR train.

Bold Tone

I refuse to believe they cannot improve on that technology.

MuswellHillGooner

I agree with Mark Clattenburg ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Clattenburg ) and Martin Samuel ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Samuel ) as i would hate to be sat there waiting for however long with no clue as to why the decision was made one way or the other when the camera footage exists and could easily be shown if they wanted to. The only reason i can think of is them trying to save the embarrassment of egotistical refs like Mike Dean who may be butt-hurt when the video shows them to be blind/biased/wrong!

Muswell Hill Gooner wrote:

Claudius

Do we hear the regular referee?

MuswellHillGooner

Claudius wrote:
Do we hear the regular referee?

I don't think that is important as the regular ref is just as unsure as everybody else. What they are asking for is simply the same as what they already show on TV. Replay footage.
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/49057675

TambourineMan

VAR is good, needs refinement of course. The new handball rule for attacking teams is fucking dumb.

Bold Tone

Match of the Day pundits slam Wolves players for VAR complaints

"The rules are very clear in terms of being set out," said Jenas, "If it hits your hand and it creates a goal it's going to be disallowed.

Fellow pundit Neville agreed, ...
"What we did find out in the (Women's) World Cup is that the handball is the worst rule, it will get challenged and looked at.
"They know the rules and they have been briefed, but we just have to get on with it.
"You saw with the West Ham and (Manchester) City game yesterday (Saturday), it's offside, deal with it.
"There has been so much rubbish and drama. Ultimately, there have been three decisions by VAR this weekend and they have all been correct by the rules."

https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/get-it-match-day-pundits-3199845
However one City player seems to disagree

Claudius

Let’s respond to Ilkay. I had a similar complaint at first, but let’s play a goal scenario.
The VAR will likely be reviewed when a ball has gone in. In the event that a ball is in and the defender has handled the ball, the referee will give advantage to the attacking team and award the goal. It does not make sense to pull play back and disadvantage the offensive team once they have scored.
So I think Ilkay is wrong there.
The rule is fine. It will take a while to adjust to because it ‘appears’ to go after every handball. What the rule in conjunction with VAR does is give us clarity. There can be no debate about situations like Koscielny handling the ball going forward. You handle, it’s disallowed. Let’s stay out of the murkiness of intent. In the end, it’s imperfect because it broadens the scope of punishment for the offensive team. But it’s cleaner for interpretation.

Bold Tone

https://www.pocket-lint.com/tv/news/144826-what-is-var

IFAB has told the Premier League & Bundesliga to get in line on VAR usage
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-soccer-var/ifab-tell-premier-league-to-get-in-line-on-var-usage-idUKKCN1VC1F8

MuswellHillGooner

"I watched Wolves play Manchester United on Monday. The goal Wolves scored was glorious and you could see from the way everyone on their bench reacted that it was something they had worked on to get Ruben Neves in that position. He provided the wonderful finish from 20 yards.

There wasn't one flicker of complaint from United's players, not a murmur from the coaches. But then Jon Moss signals a possible offside is being examined against Joao Moutinho — the only possible part of his body that could have been infringing was his finger or hand.

And in that moment, the atmosphere fizzled out."

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-7387825/PETER-CROUCH-VAR-farce-ruining-game-love-need-make-changes-fast.html

goon

I don’t get why VAR was so slow in that instance. The check should have been done by the time they finished celebrating. Instead it looks like they only started the check after.

Klaus

Claudius wrote:
So I think Ilkay is wrong there.

He's wrong because he thinks rules are supposed to be equal for everyone on the pitch, which is not their purpose at all. The potential outcome is not the same so why should the rules be?

jones

Who knew that giving technology to fucking dinosaurs would result in massive delays. We saw glimpses of it last season when they took half a day to chalk off a goal in the League Cup which was obvious in real time.

The PGMO houses the world's worst refs by far but even they can't be that inept. Genuinely believe they're being difficult to thwart the introduction of VAR ex post facto.