GooneriC wrote:

When's the last time we had a double madness ?

2011 deadline day was a full descent into madness....just not the good kind (though it panned out).

GooneriC wrote:

When's the last time we had a double madness ?

Summer of 1995. Bergkamp and Platt.

est wrote:

He looks like a defender that's switched on, reads the game and doesn't jump into tackles. Would make a world of difference for us.

This is what I like most about him. Also what stood out when watching video of Saliba. He looks smart, patient and accurate with his tackles. Only going to ground if he needs to, and knowing he'll outmuscle and run down nearly all attackers if they try and run him anyway. I see a bit of prime King Kolo in him.

On the other hand, as promising as Konate looks at 6'4" and with good speed and athleticism, I didn't like how much he dived in in the matches I saw at the end of last season and Youtube clips. That was the one reservation I had with him.

If this is true and we do make an offer then you’d think Koscielny & Mustafi are both leaving.

Icing on the cake

JazzG wrote:

If this is true and we do make an offer then you’d think Koscielny & Mustafi are both leaving.

Sokratis, Upamecano, Holding, Chambers, Mavropanos with Monreal as backup in a 3. 

Seems good enough for a season. Monreal will leave next season and Saliba will come in. And we will also know how good our 3 existing young CB is before shipping one out. Perfect

If we do get him I'd fimly believe in the theory we are now only going for top players who can improve the squad

I think Mavropanos is very likely to go back to Greece for the season on loan.

Zech Medley too.

Ricky1985 wrote:

est wrote:

He looks like a defender that's switched on, reads the game and doesn't jump into tackles. Would make a world of difference for us.

This is what I like most about him. Also what stood out when watching video of Saliba. He looks smart, patient and accurate with his tackles. Only going to ground if he needs to, and knowing he'll outmuscle and run down nearly all attackers if they try and run him anyway. I see a bit of prime King Kolo in him.

On the other hand, as promising as Konate looks at 6'4" and with good speed and athleticism, I didn't like how much he dived in in the matches I saw at the end of last season and Youtube clips. That was the one reservation I had with him.

I do think you need a little bit of aggression in a defence though, and if we're seriously interested in Upamecano we're probably planning for him to team up with Saliba in a season or two. You don't need two measured centrebacks. You want them to be able to turn the heat up when needed. It might not be great if they're too similar.

That's just going by the distinction you just made, though. I haven't seen much of Upamecano so I haven't got any strong opinions one way or the other, but the name is an instant shirt seller.

Bild claim we've had a 55m bid rejected

Do this and you don't have to touch central defense for the forseeable. Rugani seems more likely

Klaus, not sure what you mean by aggression but he is proactive. Will cut out the passing lanes and get to the ball before his man, without being reckless. Real maturity.

Expensive but worth it. Will get the money back longterm given the way market is going.

This seems like a farfetched fantasy but so did the Pepe signing. Never say never with Raul behind the transfer wheel I guess.

Ricky1985 wrote:

I think Mavropanos is very likely to go back to Greece for the season on loan.

Ray wrote:

Zech Medley too.

Klaus wrote:

 I haven't seen much of Upamecano so I haven't got any strong opinions one way or the other, but the name is an instant shirt seller.

My feeling too. Love the name. 

Such a fucking cool name. Now I'll be disappointed if it doesn't happen.

Day-ot...
Me say Day-ay-ay-ot...

It's seriously badass.

Claudius wrote:

Klaus, not sure what you mean by aggression but he is proactive. Will cut out the passing lanes and get to the ball before his man, without being reckless. Real maturity.

I mean that you need a defender who relishes a good tackle every now and then. Kos is the only one we've had in a decade who had that spark to him, and it made him invaluable. Kos could do a bit of everything, but there was fire in him.

Like I said, I'm not judging Upamecano who I've barely seen, but diving into tackles is only a problem if you don't end up winning them.

Qwiss! wrote:

If we get Upamecano and Tierney before the window closes it'll change everything I currently know about the club.

Truer words have never been spoken

Maybe, but I think VAR is just as likely to clear up duels where the forward will do everything in his power to make it look like a foul when he's losing a challenge. My gut feeling is that a volatile player like Diego Costa is a bit fucked, for instance.

i'll have you guys know that i started a fm mobile 2019 game for the first time in years about 2 months ago and signed pepe, tierney, upa and a couple others. it was foreshadowing and heralding the change

(i hope we get him, seems to play like kolo toure on speed...)

If we don’t get this kid is Rugani a viable plan b? I see a lot of people (I.e Klaus) writing Rugani off but is he that bad?

Looks decent on the ball to me and there would have been sound reasons behind Juve initially acquiring him and him getting international call ups

That said his lack of aggression and the negative comments really put me off

Apparently BILD claiming Upamecano wants to join us.

Such a massive club ffs. No CL doesn't seem to matter. We're like that charming older bloke at the nightclub, age doesn't seem to matter, females just can't resist. Imagine where we would have been if Gazidis and Wenger were ambitious.

Is anyone reputable reporting this?

Yep the Daily Star - they’ve gone with the headline “Upa can’t resist Arsenal old man charms”

Mirth wrote:

Is anyone reputable reporting this?

Yes, Fabrizio Romano via the Guardian. Although, he says we've enquired and been quoted £70m, rather than Bild Plus' claim that we have tabled a bid of £55m.

[Twitter]

Bild is the German sun so I wouldn’t get too excited I’m afraid.

Bild isn't reliable but Fabrizio Romano & Ed Aarons from the Guardian are reliable.

Ricky1985 wrote:

What do you think of Upamecano, Jones?

I've liked what I've seen of him myself, but a little concerned by the fact that he's not the tallest CB, although he looks as strong as a bull, and the fact that he spent 5 months out last season with a knee cartilage problem.

The knee issue came from a contact injury, shouldn't be recurring hopefully although he's just suffered another injury to the ankle two days ago in a preseason game vs Villa. No information how severe it is yet.

He's a pretty complete defender, incredibly gifted physically as tall as he's wide, can keep up with Werner in training (who's as fast as your Sanes etc) and with remarkable ability on the ball. That was my assessment after his first season, last summer he came back overweight from vacation and had to work hard to find his form, didn't look nearly as impressive with the ball to his feet as before but he got back to where he was shortly before getting injured. In the mean time Konate came through and stole his thunder a bit as he's pretty much the same player but three inches taller.

Either way both are tremendous talents and trying to find out who will end up better is a coin toss basically at the moment. Can imagine that they actually cash in on one of them now, they just bought Ampadu from Chelsea who's another centre back. Hope this goes through

Sicario wrote:

Bild is the German sun so I wouldn’t get too excited I’m afraid.

Bild is the German Sun certainly but their sports dept are relatively reliable, they usually are right when they break news like this.

I have been reading people all evening on Twitter saying Bild Plus is more reliable.

I'm sure Jones will set us right one way or the other.

Edit - right on cue. And with good news! Cheers Jones.

jones wrote:

Ricky1985 wrote:

What do you think of Upamecano, Jones?

I've liked what I've seen of him myself, but a little concerned by the fact that he's not the tallest CB, although he looks as strong as a bull, and the fact that he spent 5 months out last season with a knee cartilage problem.

The knee issue came from a contact injury, shouldn't be recurring hopefully although he's just suffered another injury to the ankle two days ago in a preseason game vs Villa. No information how severe it is yet.

He's a pretty complete defender, incredibly gifted physically as tall as he's wide, can keep up with Werner in training (who's as fast as your Sanes etc) and with remarkable ability on the ball. That was my assessment after his first season, last summer he came back overweight from vacation and had to work hard to find his form, didn't look nearly as impressive with the ball to his feet as before but he got back to where he was shortly before getting injured. In the mean time Konate came through and stole his thunder a bit as he's pretty much the same player but three inches taller.

Either way both are tremendous talents and trying to find out who will end up better is a coin toss basically at the moment. Can imagine that they actually cash in on one of them now, they just bought Ampadu from Chelsea who's another centre back. Hope this goes through

Sounds like just what I was wanting to hear! :opti:

What's his temperament like? Is he a confident lad? Does he need an older player like Willi Orban next to him at this point in his development or does he have a bit more about him than that?

Cheers.

Sicario wrote:

If we don’t get this kid is Rugani a viable plan b? I see a lot of people (I.e Klaus) writing Rugani off but is he that bad?

I’m the one who named him Mustafi of Turin. The fans do not want him, and get on his back for mistakes.

It wasn’t always this way though. The player Juve bought from Empoli was highly rated. A bit like Mustafi was heralded for passing with an incredibly high pass percentage. Was also a good tackler.

It’s also a bit Juventus fault though. They’ve owned him most of this decade. He’s either been on loan or on the bench. When he’s been there he’s been behind guys like Bonucci, Chiellini, Barzagli, Benatia. And now De Ligt. He barely plays a third of a season.

That’s why I said there might be something to rescue there. I remember Chelsea made a bid last season. That’s because Sarri was the Empoli coach he thrived under.

Redbull are an entity that knows how to invest across its two entities. If they have named a price, then we should be able to get the player. If they outright told us “no” then we would be in trouble. And as Jones said, they have talent in reserve. It’s a joke how good their central defenders are.

Claudius wrote:

Sicario wrote:

If we don’t get this kid is Rugani a viable plan b? I see a lot of people (I.e Klaus) writing Rugani off but is he that bad?

I’m the one who named him Mustafi of Turin. The fans do not want him, and get on his back for mistakes.

It wasn’t always this way though. The player Juve bought from Empoli was highly rated. A bit like Mustafi was heralded for passing with an incredibly high pass percentage. Was also a good tackler.

It’s also a bit Juventus fault though. They’ve owned him most of this decade. He’s either been on loan or on the bench. When he’s been there he’s been behind guys like Bonucci, Chiellini, Barzagli, Benatia. And now De Ligt. He barely plays a third of a season.

That’s why I said there might be something to rescue there. I remember Chelsea made a bid last season. That’s because Sarri was the Empoli coach he thrived under.

Interesting. Still think Rugani is more realistic than this RB Leipzig fella but let’s see.

Like several of you have said, the name is great. Imagine him scoring with a towering header and the commentator screaming "UPAMECAANOOO!"

Can't wait for pronouncers to be butchering it....

"Up me canoeee"

Sicario wrote:

If we don’t get this kid is Rugani a viable plan b? I see a lot of people (I.e Klaus) writing Rugani off but is he that bad?

It's possible he improves in a new environment, Sicario.

In his defense, he has not benefited from being a bit-part player for so long. He sacrificed most of his crucial development years for the bench. He's also got some very large shoes to fill at Juventus, and that pressure keeps mounting the older his teammates get.

He's weak though, especially for being such a big bloke, gets pushed around too easy. And his size and athleticism was one of the things people were excited about when he was young. In Italy defenders need to be big and strong. There's a misconception that Italian defenders are usually technically able since most other Italians have cultivated technique, but you'll find few centrebacks who play it out from the back in Serie A. Atalanta play that way. Napoli do it. Juventus and Inter have some players capable of doing it. That's basically it. Distribution is much more important for Premier League defenders than it is for Serie A defenders, generally speaking.

And that's the thing about Rugani - it isn't that he comes up a bit short in the technical end at a top club; his passing is actually pretty decent and it probably makes him look more impressive than he is on youtube. But the things he's supposed to be decent at, like tackling, challenging forwards, reading the game and blocking space, are just not there. There's an air of Granit Xhaka about him, if you think back on how rarely you see Xhaka win a defensive challenge. He's done too easily, gets sucked in and then bypassed, or he's positioned wrongly.

Could he be a good signing? Sure. But most things we know about him suggest that he won't be, and the Juve fans who watch him day in and day out are particularly sceptical. They've seen him fail to stake a claim for years now. There used to be this idea that he was waiting for his turn, but I don't think that's how it works in football. Great players don't wait for their turn. They might need an opportunity, but when it comes along they take it. Rugani is their Johan Djourou or Philippe Senderos, players who weren't disasters but never quite had enough ability to go all the way. We used to think that Senderos would be a good player somewhere else, and he wasn't. Once he left Arsenal he deflated instead, because it was a confirmation that he didn't have it in him to be great and he lost that final bit of edge.

I think that'll happen to Rugani too eventually. If he comes here he's also left with the monumental task of having to learn how to defend properly, in a team that let in 51 league goals last year... having previously failed to learn it from arguably the best defence in the world. Safe to say the odds are well stacked against him.

Thanks Klaus. I take your word for it. Rugani doesn’t sound too promising then.