Time for Wenger to say toodle-oo and take his challenge-challenged players with him: Page 65 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Time for Wenger to say toodle-oo and take his challenge-challenged players with him

Burnwinter

Ricky1985 wrote:
Some of the crap being spouted here is cringeworthy though. You'd think it was Wenger marking Cohen or Cahill, Wenger missing a piss easy one-on-one.

The players have fucking bottled it, the players have disgraced the club in the last month or so, the players need to take a long, hard fucking look at themselves.

The blame lies with Wenger if he lets them get away with it - there are no excuses this season. We've had close enough to our best team out there, and we've failed miserably.

Nice try Ricky, but while the players deserve a chunk of blame our failures are too predictable, systematic, repetitious and endemic for the bulk of blame not to be sheeted home to Arsene Wenger. Come on Ricky, it's been years now: the players change but the results remain strikingly similar.

Burnwinter

By the way Ricky, I can't believe you were in the Nasri thread calling him a disgrace while you're in here now extending Wenger yet another chance.

Famousno10

I just think he's run out of time with his whole philosophy, there's not much evidence of his players, and us fans actually believing in him anymore. It would have been beautiful to win the title this year, and I think it would have led to a new era for us, but it's come up well short and we can only blame the manager for that...poor decisions tactically, not motivating the players in the right way, not picking them up enough, but most of all, ignoring the shortcomings in the squad in the transfer windows...he's undone all of his good work, and he'll know it. Pure stubberness to try and prove his point, and we've missed the chance to build.

We've come close this year to replicating his previous sides success, but our depth in quality has ruined us and times moved on for Wenger...his brilliance came from being ahead of the curve when he came to the pl, with his training methods, his nutrition, his expectancy of workrate, his scouting network...now all the top clubs are the same pretty much...they have their global scouts, they have their athletes prepared to put a shift in that matches ours, and they are prepared to spend big while we don't. We can't live on past glories, that's what sp*rs do. Also, for all the beautiful football we're supposed to play, I don't see it anymore...all I see is loads of short passing, mainly aimless, poor crosses in from the fullbacks, and waiting for the perfect through ball down the middle...it's actually quite boring. Great for neutrals, because we've become such a joke in defense that anything can happen.

It's been an amazing capitulation, really...they all look exausted not only physically but mentally, and that includes the boss, but even if he decides to spend some money in the summer I think the damage is done now, and his reputation and legacy is in danger of being a total humiliation to us if we repeat this next year, and I can't see us holding on to our better players or attracting new ones with a manager who doesn't win anything.

Arsene, thanks for everything, truly, you've given us some fantastic moments, seasons, players, stadium, memories...but it's time for change.

Ricky1985

Burnwinter wrote:
Ricky1985 wrote:
Some of the crap being spouted here is cringeworthy though. You'd think it was Wenger marking Cohen or Cahill, Wenger missing a piss easy one-on-one.

The players have fucking bottled it, the players have disgraced the club in the last month or so, the players need to take a long, hard fucking look at themselves.

The blame lies with Wenger if he lets them get away with it - there are no excuses this season. We've had close enough to our best team out there, and we've failed miserably.

Nice try Ricky, but while the players deserve a chunk of blame our failures are too predictable, systematic, repetitious and endemic for the bulk of blame not to be sheeted home to Arsene Wenger. Come on Ricky, it's been years now: the players change but the results remain strikingly similar.

Bullshit, it's not a "nice try" at anything, it is the reality of the situation. There's too much dislike for Wenger to see the situation clearly.

There was nothing systematic in our problems today, it was all individual failure and stupidity. What was Song doing at the first corner when marking Cahill? Disgusting, I'm foaming at the mouth thinking about it. What was Nasri doing on that one-on-one? He can't miss them, but he did, and he has missed them for months. What was Djourou doing full stop?

The players are letting the club, the fans, and the manager down, badly. He has his faults, but he has a good side that he puts out, and they aren't doing what they should be. You can't legislate for the shit those players pulled today.

Wenger simply can't let them get away with it. If season's end comes and he has done nothing, then fine, but at the end of a game like today's, to blame the manager for the downright stupidity of a few individuals is poor form.

Famousno10

Having said all that, fuck knows who we could get to replace him...

kamikaze

Pepe LeFrits wrote:
He said we lacked maturity and were frail.

so he's beyond denial now, and into acceptance. progress!

Famousno10

I think his into depression by the looks of it...

Burnwinter

@Ricky: of course what you just saw on the pitch is the problem. But we're not just talking about today when Djourou let us down. We're talking about when Squillaci fucked up and cost us the Carling Cup, the penalties Koscielny has given away.

We're talking about the sub par, confused or apparently unmotivated performances not just of Nasri but at varying times of Nasri, Arshavin, Chamakh, Fabregas, Bendtner, not to mention players like Vela who despite apparent talent have just never clicked.

What then for a year, two years and three years ago when the problems were more or less the same (modulo injuries to senior players) and the results similar?

We've been abusing key players for apparently lacking motivation at this stage of the season for several years now. We've been questioning how we can possibly see such inept keeping and/or defending in the big matches that decide our season for several years now.

The players change. The results stay more or less the same.

In the cold light of day I never claim Wenger to be incompetent or an idiot, just a few days ago I was pointing out it's hardly black and white. I've backed Wenger for a long time but it's over. Even if he does have what it takes on paper, no one really thinks he does any more and that problem is difficult to surmount.

lorddulaarsenal

What follows the depression stage? Splurging?!

Famousno10

Machete wrote:
What follows the depression stage? Splurging?!

Resignation.

Famousno10

Seriously, I worry about his mental health, i think his probably going a bit bonkers.

flobaba

He was actually trying to pump up the players with some gestures during the game. But it just looked amusing to me. I don't care what our goals conceded record is compared to other teams. It's plain to see that the team has always defended poorly, and has always conceded stupid goals from set pieces, and our attack has to be absolutely pin-point perfect to score. There's very little intelligence, movement and diversity in our attack.

He has to see that there's something massively wrong with our team if we can't create and finish off clear cut chances against a team who just got done 5-0 by Stoke fookin City.

We need fresh ideas, fresh methods - both attacking and defending.

asajoseph

These are Wenger's players, he's had them for years, and coached them for years and indoctrinated them for years.

Yes, they're disgracing the club right now, but it's only because Wenger's been allowed to get away with his bullshit for far too long. I don't care what happens in terms of playing personnel this summer. The tosser in charge needs to be fired.

goon

kamikaze wrote:
Pepe LeFrits wrote:
He said we lacked maturity and were frail.

so he's beyond denial now, and into acceptance. progress!

Arsene can see the problems with the side, I've no doubt about that, he's not stupid.

But, as he showed with the goalkeeping situation in the summer, it does mean he'll fix those problems.

CitizenNo9

Ricky seems to be the last man standing, it's only a matter of time now, it's sad/unfortunate but I can't see a comeback from here or his exit being a dignified one!

Come the revolution!

lorddulaarsenal

Get in that villas boas. He's fresh, has drive and is extremely maticulous in his attempts to succeed.

goon

Famous no 10 wrote:
Seriously, I worry about his mental health, i think his probably going a bit bonkers.

Looks fine to me.

Ricky1985

If only some of our players cared as much as he does, or we do.

Burnwinter

Fashionable choice. He'd bring us a initial fillip of courage and flair at least until the rot set in at which point it'd be anyone's guess how he'd do - but meticulousness is encouraging

Pepe LeFrits

Lagos wrote:
Ricky seems to be the last man standing, it's only a matter of time now, it's sad/unfortunate but I can't see a comeback from here or his exit being a dignified one!

Come the revolution!

Nah, I still support him too.

Ricky: The players are Wenger's players. They should certainly shoulder the blame and several of them ought to pay the price this summer, but ultimately they're the boss' responsibility. He needs to make significant changes in the coming months.

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