Chris Wheatley is normally decent but that article sounds like shit-stirring. He claims Arteta has never explained his reasoning for omitting Saliba and then goes on to claim that it's because of his early performances for us.

Whoever his source is, they've constructed a confused narrative.

I think this will be the decision which costs Arteta his job. A lot of the fanbase / players were behind him as most of his decisions had a rationale behind it, but this is clearly a decision from Arteta to massage his ego and stamp his authority. It seems to have led to fans not trusting his decision making, and players not understanding his team selections. I don’t think Arteta even realises the affect this is having, which is even more worrying.

Worst of all though, in true Arsenal fashiom, we have deteriorated his market value, and potentially slowed down his development. I’m sure other young players will be enthusiastic about joining Arsenal now...

Some extreme over reactions here. He's a kid who has a lot to learn. When Liverpool signed Ings he'd scored 12 goals in half a season from the wing at Burnley and had Spanish technique and had pace. He was lucky if he was on the bench because you're not steppin up from bottom of the prem to CL club without having a lot to learn.

Ings was getting reasonable game time until he injured himself and missed the rest of the season.

Ray wrote:

I think this will be the decision which costs Arteta his job. A lot of the fanbase / players were behind him as most of his decisions had a rationale behind it, but this is clearly a decision from Arteta to massage his ego and stamp his authority.

Logical fallacy. There is very little actual evidence to support this. Now that the shit's hit the fan, let's not let the facts get in the way of an opportunity to bash Arteta.

Don Pacifico wrote:

Chris Wheatley is normally decent but that article sounds like shit-stirring. He claims Arteta has never explained his reasoning for omitting Saliba and then goes on to claim that it's because of his early performances for us.

Whoever his source is, they've constructed a confused narrative.

Wheatley is close to agents/players, his narrative comes from them.

Agree with Don, some unreal theories on here.

Don Pacifico wrote:

Ray wrote:

I think this will be the decision which costs Arteta his job. A lot of the fanbase / players were behind him as most of his decisions had a rationale behind it, but this is clearly a decision from Arteta to massage his ego and stamp his authority.

Logical fallacy. There is very little actual evidence to support this. Now that the shit's hit the fan, let's not let the facts get in the way of an opportunity to bash Arteta.

Let's be honest, this will definitely not be the decision or cause of Arteta's sacking. If he does get sacked it will be because of results in the pitch and not because he's benched a 19 year old CB.

Qwiss! wrote:

Big Willie wrote:

But yes, this is a strange one. I don't know what reason there could have been other than the family problems he was having and possibly not being in the right frame of mind but if that was the case then it's make sense to either send him back on loan in France to be closer with his family, give him time off which means not playing him in U23s, or registering him and giving him the odd game here and there (especially if he is right enough mentally to play U23 games).

Given that Saliba appears to be really keen to play I think they cynically used his families loss as an excuse for freezing him out.

My point exactly Qwiss. If he was having problems the obvious answer would be to either send him on loan back to France to be closer to his family or to give him time off of football to get himself back to where he needs to be mentally. That means not playing for the U23s. If he wasn't considered to be sufficiently impacted by his family problems to prevent him from playing for the youth team then the same could have been said for the first team. Registering him would have been enough, no one is saying he needs to play every game from the start. But at the minimum some appearances in the Europa and League Cup. All we've done now is wasted 6 months of his development for no reason.

Big Willie wrote:

Let's be honest, this will definitely not be the decision or cause of Arteta's sacking. If he does get sacked it will be because of results in the pitch and not because he's benched a 19 year old CB.

Sure, I just think given the state we're in, it's easy to blame Arteta for everything bad/see everything the club does through a negative lens. Personally, I think there needs to be a bit of perspective.

speedy wrote:

Some extreme over reactions here. He's a kid who has a lot to learn. When Liverpool signed Ings he'd scored 12 goals in half a season from the wing at Burnley and had Spanish technique and had pace. He was lucky if he was on the bench because you're not steppin up from bottom of the prem to CL club without having a lot to learn.

Yeah, but we're not a CL club, we're 15th and regularly play jokers like Mustafi who actively cost us points. And if he's genuinely not ready to play in the Premier League, we should have loaned him out, because as it stands he hasn't played any football this season, how will he improve without playing? As is stands, he won't be ready next season either, because he hasn't had an opportunity to learn. I don't see any arguments as to why this situation wasn't handled absolutely horribly by Arteta and the club, although I doubt it'll be what costs Arteta his job, the putrid football the team serves up on a weekly basis will eventually do that on its own.

Also, while I'm here, Merry Christmas to you all, hope you're all healthy and can enjoy the time with your family in spite of the circumstances

Maybe he was too chummy with Guendouzi or some similar stupid shit. Or simply after winning the FA Cup Arteta overreached and wanted to have a team with "his" signings only.

Article seems off to me, there is a massive amount of shit stirring going on around the club. Something definitely doesn't sit right about the Saliba situation though.

jones wrote:

The way he's behaved in the last months this might be just him stamping his authority Mourinho style.

Despite the bellend Mourinho is at least he has something behind him if he wants to act like a dick. Arteta has no track record to start acting up.

Qwiss! wrote:

Big Willie wrote:

But yes, this is a strange one. I don't know what reason there could have been other than the family problems he was having and possibly not being in the right frame of mind but if that was the case then it's make sense to either send him back on loan in France to be closer with his family, give him time off which means not playing him in U23s, or registering him and giving him the odd game here and there (especially if he is right enough mentally to play U23 games).

Given that Saliba appears to be really keen to play I think they cynically used his families loss as an excuse for freezing him out.

There are many reasons for freezing him out, but unless you are really naive the family loss was initially created by reddit gooners as their way of guessing why he hasn't played. First they used his dad, but they realized later it was 3 years ago. Then they guessed his mum's loss would have been pretty tough but he has played for the next 3 months in France, and doing really well (as good as Fofana).

Saliba is evidently not happy at not playing, and of course at being frozen out completely from the first team. He has mentioned as much on other players social media. He wants to go on loan to another English club to speed up his adaptation, if not anywhere we deem fit to send him to. The kid is absolutely alright and by all accounts very strong mentally (which fits all the scouting reports initially about how special his mental strength was helping him break into his first team early).

I doubt he is so bad he don't even make the bench, although a lot of journos looks like they are briefed to keep this rhetoric of how he is not ready. I am with Jones, guy is a special talent and is being frozen out for non footballing reasons. Whatever it is, it's not family reason that he can't play football.

Yes, he may be mentally strong and yes he may have played since his parents died but he's also 19, living in a new country, learning a new language without much in the way of family support. Given this, there is a reasonable argument to ease him in gently.

And whether he wants to play or not is irrelevant - what 19 year-old wouldn't want to? The staff of the club are there to assess whether he is ready to be thrust into the limelight and frankly I'd take their judgement over an enthusiastic but inexperienced teenager.

It's not a question of age. When you sign a 19 year old who's playing regular Ligue 1 football for over £30 million you would at the very least expect him to play a bit, and failing that, get a loan. What you wouldn't expect is us dropping him from the squad in every competition. We're destroying his development at the moment, and it's hard to see any rhyme or reason to it other than Arsenal being bloody incompetent. It's the simplest and most likely explanation, and it matches what we see in most other aspects of team building and management right now. We're an inch away from the relegation lane and our staff get thoroughly embarrassed every week in public, whether it's about player management, tactics or signings. It's an absolute clown show.

Oh I'm with you in the incompetence front. Definitely fucked up on the loan/registration front I just don't think that Arteta has excluded him out of (basically) spite as has been suggested.

Yeah, I'm with you there. I don't think it's out of spite either. I just think Saliba was a player Arteta wasn't keen on right now; he has signed or extended with three other CBs since he arrived, and all of them have been established players. There is no indication that he has ever considered blooding in someone inexperienced in the defence. It feels like Saliba wasn't important to his plans, and we've treated him accordingly, seemingly to the disappointment of Saliba himself. This is all speculation, but it wouldn't surprise me if they had a row about it and that's what Arteta's comments about "professional issues" are referring too.

Don Pacifico wrote:

Yes, he may be mentally strong and yes he may have played since his parents died but he's also 19, living in a new country, learning a new language without much in the way of family support. Given this, there is a reasonable argument to ease him in gently.

And whether he wants to play or not is irrelevant - what 19 year-old wouldn't want to? The staff of the club are there to assess whether he is ready to be thrust into the limelight and frankly I'd take their judgement over an enthusiastic but inexperienced teenager.

Him being not ready to play based on the assessment on the staffs in training, I can accept that. I guessed that as much initially, although I really can't believe based on his level in St Etienne and him playing so many Europa League matches and being so impressive, he suddenly isn't even ready to be on the bench.

Family reasons is definitely off though. Totally make zero sense.

Don Pacifico wrote:

Big Willie wrote:

Let's be honest, this will definitely not be the decision or cause of Arteta's sacking. If he does get sacked it will be because of results in the pitch and not because he's benched a 19 year old CB.

Sure, I just think given the state we're in, it's easy to blame Arteta for everything bad/see everything the club does through a negative lens. Personally, I think there needs to be a bit of perspective.

I don’t think it will be the cause of his sacking, but it is the start that has led to a questions being asked about his decision making, whereas before this whole saga, IMO fans were on board with his decisions. It has also potentially led to players questioning Arteta and his favouritism which may have lost him the confidence of the squad. Half of these players that were willing to take paycuts on Arteta’s say so, are barely running on the pitch for him anymore.

There are no facts here, we don’t know why Saliba is being treated this way, but whichever way you look at it, Arteta comes out looking worse.

At the end of the day, even experienced managers will struggle with the current squad and their attitude, it takes a huge leap of faith to believe a novice like Arteta can turn it around.

I’ll never get my head around why he hasn’t had ONE single appearance, even as a sub, for our first-team yet, despite how shit we’ve been and our involvement in the Europa League where traditionally we blood our youngsters, let alone a highly-rated youngster signed for £27m.

Hope the truth will come out one day.