NBA 19/20: Page 11 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

NBA 19/20

Bold Tone

A year ago the right-wing Fox News host told the league’s biggest star to “shut up and dribble” instead of talk Trump. But now she demands they speak out about China.
So which is it?
https://www.thedailybeast.com/laura-shut-up-and-dribble-ingraham-now-suddenly-wants-nba-stars-to-speak-up

flobaba

It would be akin to me saying: “I stand with the Kurds!” in this whole Turkey Syria mess, when I don’t know a Turk, a Kurd, a Syrian, and I have no idea what they are fighting for or about.

HomeSteak

Bold Tone wrote:
I deleted my post as I'm at work and wanted to post when I could respond immediately.
LeBron did not say "shut up and dribble".
That was some Trump stooge.
What LeBron defended was his right to choose to speak when he felt the need to.
Big difference.
He does not have to comment on every issue.

Of course. He can comment on what he wants. But I was just saying I understand the backlash he is getting. And that I think that he is being a hypocrite.
Athletes like to talk how they should use the huge platform they have to speak out against wrong doing, and he has been at the front of this. Ok now is your chance to do so, but you don't. You would rather ignore everything and not risk losing money. And it's not just the NBA players, it's as someone else said, big companys, actors, singers and so on. It's all fun and games until it's your money on the line, then you back off.

And it's not the first time Lebron has done so when it comes to China. In 2007 when the Cavs signed that open letter to criticizing China’s role in the Darfur genocide...one player refused to sign it.
It's gonna be hard to take him serious from now on subjects like this.

Bold Tone

HomeSteak wrote:
Bold Tone wrote:
I deleted my post as I'm at work and wanted to post when I could respond immediately.
LeBron did not say "shut up and dribble".
That was some Trump stooge.
What LeBron defended was his right to choose to speak when he felt the need to.
Big difference.
He does not have to comment on every issue.

Of course. He can comment on what he wants. But I was just saying I get the backlash he is getting.
Athletes like to talk how they should use the huge platform they have to speak out against wrong doing, and he has been at the front of this. Ok now is your chance to do so, but you don't. You would rather ignore everything and not risk losing money. And it's not just the NBA players, it's as someone else said, big companys, actors, singers and so on. It's all fun and games until it's your money on the line, then you back off.

And it's not the first time Lebron has done so when it comes to China. In 2007 when the Cavs signed that open letter to criticizing China’s role in the Darfur genocide...one player refused to sign it.
It's gonna be hard to take him serious from now on subjects like this.

I don't know where you get your info but, once again, selective and/or out of date.

At the time Newble presented the letter, James said he didn't have enough information to speak on the issue, let alone sign anything. And he was ripped from coast to coast, by pundits, columnists and social observers. They all characterized James as a greedy, spoiled athlete who cared more about his business interests in China than the slaughter of a reported 400,000 non-Arabs in Darfur.

https://www.espn.com/nba/news/story?id=3398947

As Flobs post above makes clear, he commented after educating himself which is sensible.

jones

HomeSteak wrote:
flobaba wrote:
He did not say or imply that Daryl Morey should “shut up and do your job”. That’s such a strange take on his view and an unnecessary twist of his words. He explicitly stated that he did not believe the man was educated enough on the issue before he spoke. And he granted that the man had the right to speak, but should have been conscious of the possible ramifications and repercussions.

How is this a shut up and dribble / do your job parallel?

It's just how I see it. And by the looks of it, I'm not the only one that sees it that way.

He has the right to speak but should be carfuel what he says if it affects their income - that's what I get from that. Let's be honest is not like he posted something super controversial or wrong. Be carfuel what you speak or twitt? Come on, his new nike campaign "invites wearers to share their voice"(launched this week, funny that). That's what the guy thinks, so is it ok or not to share his voice?

Isnt it so that free speech means being able to say what you think, even if it's not right ? So in Bron's view the problem here is what he posted and not how the Chinese gouverment reacts to any tiny thing that people say that might not be in line with the views that they have?

We can speculate on the reasons for LeBrons comment and it well might be true that he's mostly con earned about his salary. The fact remains he's 100% correct Morey has made a dumb comment which not only shows his poor understanding of what's happening in HK (which is far more than just Chinese/HK government telling everyone to shut up) but also his piss poor awareness of his own position. The US are a very active player in the goings on in Hong Kong, their funding and training of Joshua Wong is an open secret to those who care to know, they've been shit stirring in the South China sea for ages and now some American CEO thinks he's in any position to comment about a former British colony and the complex situation unravelling there and the implications for what'll happen there today and the next 28 years.

Imagine Chinese businessmen chiming in on American domestic issues calling for international solidarity with black people getting shot there but with the caveat of them spouting untruths knowing next to nothing about the situation. Dont think the medial echo would sound as it does now

jones

HomeSteak wrote:
Bold Tone wrote:
I deleted my post as I'm at work and wanted to post when I could respond immediately.
LeBron did not say "shut up and dribble".
That was some Trump stooge.
What LeBron defended was his right to choose to speak when he felt the need to.
Big difference.
He does not have to comment on every issue.

Of course. He can comment on what he wants. But I was just saying I understand the backlash he is getting. And that I think that he is being a hypocrite.
Athletes like to talk how they should use the huge platform they have to speak out against wrong doing, and he has been at the front of this. Ok now is your chance to do so, but you don't.

See this shows you think you know there's any clear wrongdoing anyone could speak up against when it's far from the case. Not to come off condescending but maybe you should educate yourself about why there even is a thing called Hong Kong, how it came to be and what led to this situation instead of relying on outlets which seem to indicate to you that Chinese governments try to breakdown liberal Chinese folks protesting for muh freedoms.

HomeSteak

jones wrote:
HomeSteak wrote:
Of course. He can comment on what he wants. But I was just saying I understand the backlash he is getting. And that I think that he is being a hypocrite.
Athletes like to talk how they should use the huge platform they have to speak out against wrong doing, and he has been at the front of this. Ok now is your chance to do so, but you don't.

See this shows you think you know there's any clear wrongdoing anyone could speak up against when it's far from the case. Not to come off condescending but maybe you should educate yourself about why there even is a thing called Hong Kong, how it came to be and what led to this situation instead of relying on outlets which seem to indicate to you that Chinese governments try to breakdown liberal Chinese folks protesting for muh freedoms.

Maybe I was not being explicit, I was not talking about Hong Kong(as I don't know much about that situation so I did not get into that) but about the twitt, and how one twitt created all this shit storm. And how it's not normal that a government should react like that, and that people just accept it by fear. That's whats going on, isn't that censorship? Like that kid that won the video game competition and had a sign up about Hong Kong, he got kicked out and his prize taken away from him so we don't upset Xi ?

Ok he is wrong and ignorat and stupid, like me, but he should be able to post "Fight for Freedom, Stand with Hong Kong" and be fine. That's free speech, in my opinion, no matter what position he has in a team or a firm. It just got out of hand, there was a guy at a pre-season game in Phily last night that had a signed that said "Stand with Hong Kong" and got kicked out of the arena.

Mirth

jones wrote:
Imagine Chinese businessmen chiming in on American domestic issues calling for international solidarity with black people getting shot there but with the caveat of them spouting untruths knowing next to nothing about the situation. Dont think the medial echo would sound as it does now

I don't buy that - half the world takes pot shots at the political and domestic situation in America on a weekly basis. Obviously any concerns are then filed in the bin but that's another issue.

jones

Mirth wrote:
jones wrote:
Imagine Chinese businessmen chiming in on American domestic issues calling for international solidarity with black people getting shot there but with the caveat of them spouting untruths knowing next to nothing about the situation. Dont think the medial echo would sound as it does now

I don't buy that - half the world takes pot shots at the political and domestic situation in America on a weekly basis. Obviously any concerns are then filed in the bin but that's another issue.

Surely you realise though the massively lopsided playing field? American media and by extension any half prominent dickhead with a twitter account have an enormous reach, no one in Germany had ever heard of Morey before yet this has somehow become a story here as well. Whereas I'm genuinely intrigued to learn of this half the world you're alluding to that would publicly take a stance comparable to standing with secessionist movements in the US. One thing to criticise clear transgressions such as foreign invasions (and even then the criticism is timid at best), another to get involved in a situation like HK.

Mirth

jones wrote:
Mirth wrote:
I don't buy that - half the world takes pot shots at the political and domestic situation in America on a weekly basis. Obviously any concerns are then filed in the bin but that's another issue.

Surely you realise though the massively lopsided playing field? American media and by extension any half prominent dickhead with a twitter account have an enormous reach, no one in Germany had ever heard of Morey before yet this has somehow become a story here as well. Whereas I'm genuinely intrigued to learn of this half the world you're alluding to that would publicly take a stance comparable to standing with secessionist movements in the US. One thing to criticise clear transgressions such as foreign invasions (and even then the criticism is timid at best), another to get involved in a situation like HK.

Well, your initial point was about whether others outside the US would comment on race relations within the US - I pointed out that people have.

It's hard to determine how a secessionist movement in the US would be greeted but you could point to the Catalan independence protests a couple of years ago where the SNP were quite vocal for what Spain claimed was a domestic issue. I also remember Jimmy Wales sticking his nose in but I could be wrong. Granted Spain and the US are at very different ends of the power spectrum but people commenting on current events based on a 5 minute Vox video isn't new.

The point isn't restricted to the NBA or Hong Kong anyway - there's a constant theme of hiding behind the guise of 'domestic issues' when it concerns Hong Kong, Taiwan or Tibet by the Chinese government and fundamentally I don't think it's outrageous for people to weigh in. They're hardly punching down.

arsedocmd

You got your tickets for the season opener Bryant? Bummer that PG is out though.

jones

Mirth wrote:
jones wrote:
Surely you realise though the massively lopsided playing field? American media and by extension any half prominent dickhead with a twitter account have an enormous reach, no one in Germany had ever heard of Morey before yet this has somehow become a story here as well. Whereas I'm genuinely intrigued to learn of this half the world you're alluding to that would publicly take a stance comparable to standing with secessionist movements in the US. One thing to criticise clear transgressions such as foreign invasions (and even then the criticism is timid at best), another to get involved in a situation like HK.

Well, your initial point was about whether others outside the US would comment on race relations within the US - I pointed out that people have.

There was a pretty lengthy caveat at the end of my point tbf.

The point isn't restricted to the NBA or Hong Kong anyway - there's a constant theme of hiding behind the guise of 'domestic issues' when it concerns Hong Kong, Taiwan or Tibet by the Chinese government and fundamentally I don't think it's outrageous for people to weigh in.

I think it's pretty much the exact opposite, most people in the media don't hold back at all when it comes to Chinese political issues. No one said it's outrageous for people to speak up either, it's just that the attempts to weigh in are blatantly obvious in their intent - nobody ever raises their voice to speak of the inhumane living conditions in HK for most of the population because Western banks and insurance companies profit off of the "freest economy on earth", nobody ever mentioned the people's will for democracy instead of the perverted parliament there before 1997, no Western government ever demanded a thorough analysis of HK based bank accounts for the hundreds of billions of illicit funds hid there. But now all of a sudden they all found their collective humanitarian voice to support HK Chinese in their struggle for liberty from mainland involvement.

Mirth

I take it that your main issue, then, is hypocrisy? I don't really see the virtue in debating who is the bigger hypocrite between China and everyone else but I will say that equally no one was particularly bothered when Causeway Bay Booksellers disappeared or when China issued a white paper saying that they had de facto autonomy over the nomination of the top political posts in the city. Neither was there much fuss over a steady influx of party loyalists into the city along with an erosion of press freedoms and replacing Cantonese with Madarin as the de facto language.

The protests aim to push their voices to the top of the news cycle and so far they seem to be achieving it.

jones

My main issue was with people who don't know what they're talking about piping up about "standing with Hong Kong". Nothing more, nothing less - I'm not in the business of whitewashing China's actions in HK or elsewhere, my issue is with how Western actors try to further their influence in their region.

Interesting though that you mention an erosion of press freedoms there. I take it you're from HK yourself? From all I read and heard from Cantonese colleagues the press in HK has a prevalent anti mainland slant especially its biggest "paper" Apple Daily, whose owner Jimmy Lai has recently been hosted by Pence Bolton and Pompeo and was revealed by Wikileaks to have been working with the CIA since at least a decade.

Other papers which are owned by the likes of Jardine Matheson - HK's most powerful company owned by the Keswick family (yes our very own chairman) - are also pretty unlikely to be favouring mainland positions for what it's worth although I'm not going to act as if I read them tbf.

Mirth

No, I'm not from HK but I do work with a newspaper publisher that has operations globally, including HK and generally has to walk the middle line in order to continue having a presence. I would say what I know about it is second hand rather than first hand.

Censorship of the media goes behind who the owners are. I wouldn't immediately call that an affront to free press - as there are pro Beijing outlets (which have been rising), such as Headline Daily, as well. It's not exactly a model to adopt but that's not where my concern lies as that's not widely different to what you'd find in most of Europe or North America.

My main point regarding suppression of the press was around the actual violence, blockades and interference that journalists on the ground face, such as: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/09/apple-daily-condemns-attack-hong-kong-protest-reporter-190925024713237.html

In the context of this, it isn't about which powerful 'side' is right. What matters is that the people of Hong Kong have a chance to choose the life that they want - at least until 2047. In my view, the people in HK will have less influence as time passes with Hong Kong surrendering it's domestic economic power to Shenzen and Shanghai and internationally to Singapore. Once that happens, no hack NBA owner will bother to tweet about it anymore than they tweet about Tibet.

QuincyAbeyie

HomeSteak wrote:
flobaba wrote:
He did not say or imply that Daryl Morey should “shut up and do your job”. That’s such a strange take on his view and an unnecessary twist of his words. He explicitly stated that he did not believe the man was educated enough on the issue before he spoke. And he granted that the man had the right to speak, but should have been conscious of the possible ramifications and repercussions.

How is this a shut up and dribble / do your job parallel?

It's just how I see it. And by the looks of it, I'm not the only one that sees it that way.

He has the right to speak but should be carfuel what he says if it affects their income - that's what I get from that.

Does anyone believe that he meant something other than this, honestly?

Bryant

Poor Jordan Poole:

jones

First one really wasn't all that special was it? Looked like he lost balance before the crossover

flobaba

The first was the better. Face snatching crossover.

MuswellHillGooner

If he drops him a third time, they should let him take the guy home to mow his lawn at least.

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