jones wrote:
Ricky1985 wrote:

Mavropanos, sure, but Holding has had two good spells already at Arsenal, and was hands down our best defender by the time he got injured last December. Bielik has done zilch for the first team. Wenger clearly didn't think he was ready, and he has had a very hard few years learning to play as a centreback. Which makes the loan move to Charlton and playing centre midfield all season a bit baffling.

Holding didn't start out as a viable option immediately though is what I mean. He looked very shaky for ages but was given the benefit of the doubt and is now a reasonable option. Bielik since arriving at the club (more than a year prior to Holdings arrival) never got that chance, all I'm saying is I'd like to see what he can offer.

Wasn't Bielik signed as a DM and AW looked to convert him to a ball playing CD - sort of the opposite to how Chambers started as a RB and then made his international youth debut as CB, and then went on loan and played at DM?

Anzac wrote:

On the other hand it's not like we are short of numbers as options at CB - Kos, Sokratis, Mustafi, Holding, Chambers, Mavropanos, Bielik = 7 senior squad CBs is about 2-3 surplus depending on if playing a back4 or 3.

Only player in that list who is a solid starter is Sokratis, the last 4 still have it all to prove, Mustafi needs to go and I think Koscielny will struggle to give us a full season.

And one or both of Holding could find themselves at centre mid or elsewhere. So that central defense situation is very fluid. The only certainty is Sokratis on day 1

Annoying to have to loan him back, but it's worth it if he's a legitimately top prospect. These are the signings we need to put our all into securing, in our current state.

Exciting.

Saliba should start next season if we think he's the real deal. We only have Sokratis anyway if Koscielny and Mustafi leave, so no better time than the present to blood him in. Hopefully Holding can come back a few months into the season and compete with him, but all bets are off after an ACL.

I rather get him and loan him out than miss out on a prospect like him

If the club believes he's the real deal, I'd rather pay an additional 5M and get him immediately than loan him back for a season.

If we aren't buying another central defender, we should bring him in. We are really thin on true central defenders. Monreal should not be playing another minute anywhere in defence, and Koscienly should really be viewed as a nice-to-have. Mustafi should be chased out by the Pied Piper.
I actually wanted to start a proper thread on the whole defence because I think people underestimate the dire state it is in

Get Saliba on two part payments, and buy someone cheap like Armando Izzo if Saliba has to go on loan.

Yeah. It will still be a bit of a leap for him. Even though St Etienne were a good team, he wasn't their main defender. Everyone's favourite 2008 Wishlist Subotic typically starts with Perrin (or with Kolodziejzcak in a 3).

Saliba only played about a dozen games. So he'd probably need another season to step up to being a starter. So who would start next to Sokratis?

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert wrote:

Annoying to have to loan him back, but it's worth it if he's a legitimately top prospect. These are the signings we need to put our all into securing, in our current state.

Exciting.

I just watched a video of him for the first time and i was sold on his anti-Mustafi non-diving in ways.

Bonus points for his anti-Bellerin not allowing the winger to cross the ball.
The clincher for me was not giving a penalty for the box challenges.

Only issue is his sharp release ball to the midfielder.
Xhaka ponderousness is losing half of those so maybe it's better for him to continue development away from him.

I'll be really disappointed if we don't sign this guy I hadn't heard of a couple of weeks ago.

Bold Tone wrote:
Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert wrote:

Annoying to have to loan him back, but it's worth it if he's a legitimately top prospect. These are the signings we need to put our all into securing, in our current state.

Exciting.

I just watched a video of him for the first time and i was sold on his anti-Mustafi non-diving in ways.

Bonus points for his anti-Bellerin not allowing the winger to cross the ball.
The clincher for me was not giving a penalty for the box challenges.

Only issue is his sharp release ball to the midfielder.
Xhaka ponderousness is losing half of those so maybe it's better for him to continue development away from him.

That's why we need xhaka out in the near future. A technically capable midfielder will gobble up sharp passes into him, as it gives him an extra few seconds of space







Anyone know much about this CIES Football Observatory stats site? I know it's ridiculed by some, mostly for the values it sets for players, but having come across it for the first time; it does seem the players you expect to score well, score well, and the ones you don't, don't.

From what I can gather the 'Recovery' score is based primarily on interceptions. Saliba obviously scores ludicrously high compared to the other defenders I've picked out here; from what I can see only defensive midfielders get those sorts of numbers. Whilst the approach a team has to defending makes a difference, his centeback partners at Saint Etienne have much worse scores for both 'Recovery' and 'Rigour.' I would like to know what else the score is based on besides interceptions to understand it's value. It seems to me that there is something that underpins this metric that has led Arsenal to move so hard for the kid. I checked just about every centreback I could think of and Saliba's score of 95 in not matched by anyone. The fact that he's 6'4" and 13 stone makes it all the more unusual.

The 'Rigour' stat is based on duels won on the ground and the air. Van Dijk isn't alone in scoring so high: There are a handful of big, strong centrebacks in good back fours that score 99, too. Joel Matip has the same score, for example. I also saw a stat somewhere else that said that Saliba ranked 13th out of the 69 central defenders in Ligue Une for percentage of aerial duels won. And this was particularly impressive because the average age of the 12 players ahead of him was 27.5 years old. It's apparently highly unusual to see a kid that didn't turn 18 until March that high up the list. It surely follows that Saliba's score in the "Rigour" metric is certain to go up as he gets bigger and stronger and moves to a better defence.

The third score the site say they use to gauge the performance level of a centreback is "Distribution" but that is affected by the overall possession the team has and so is redundant when comparing players from different teams. Saliba performs slightly worse than his centreback partner Loic Perrin (56) and slighlty better than Neven Subotic (45) in this metric. Perrin started his career in midfield so you'd expect him to be further ahead really.

The "Team Result" percentage is the overall assessment of what a player's presence does to their team's chance of winning, or more accurately: How they perform relative to their team mates. Saliba's 6% value is as good or better than any other player I could find.

All told, Saliba's 17 Ligue Une games have already marked him out as special relative to his peers. Arsenal must be working on that premise, hence the big money involved and the potential of agreeing to a loan to seal the deal. We really gotta get it done!

If the club decide not to sign him over the loan issue because Emery is thinking of his own short term interests, then the management would need to be sacked right among with Emery.

Definitely.
The guy is as close to Van Dijk* as any youngster i've seen.
*pinch of salt as that video is all i've seen of him!
Someone should remind them of the Suarez debacle.
Just pay the first asking price as it's only going to go higher.