no argument on that. costing us close to 30m per annum and delivering fuck all

mdgoonah41 wrote:
Gazza M wrote:

remains to be seen what calibre those players are. budget restrictions make me feel like a 2011 type window is in the offing, with some mertesacker and arteta level buys

those worked out better than the ozil, mustafi, mkhitaryan buys, tbh

If the gods remember us, they’ll give us one big casualty this summer.

I remember saying before transfer window that it would be a gargantuan effort to move just one of them even though most of us wanted all gone. I’m still hopeful we will get one out. Which one is most important to you guys?

We already had our fair share of casualties last season.
One of the reasons Mustafi played so much last season was none of the other defenders (Sokratis apart) being able to stay fit and the only reason Ozil got a game after November was Mkhi and Iwobi being worse.

The more pertinent question is how much are you willing to pay for nothing?
Nobody in their right mind is matching those wages for underperforming 30 yr olds so we will have to pay them to leave and the gargantuan effort would be justifying that loss of money to Kroenke.
Ozil£37m
Mkhi£15m
Mustafi_£10m

Claudius wrote:
mdgoonah41 wrote:

those worked out better than the ozil, mustafi, mkhitaryan buys, tbh

If the gods remember us, they’ll give us one big casualty this summer.

I remember saying before transfer window that it would be a gargantuan effort to move just one of them even though most of us wanted all gone. I’m still hopeful we will get one out. Which one is most important to you guys?

The most expensive one.

You do realise paying off any player doesn't get Arsenal any more money and that's why we haven't done it.

if another club knows they need to pay a player a huge salary, they are going to pay us less in a transfer fee. which is totally fine by me, because getting the wages off our books will go a long way towards us being able to do a reset.

if we can find a club that wants ozil, and ozil wants them, we need to be ready to accept pennies in a transfer fee just to get him out the door

No brainer if there is another club willing to pay his wages even on a free but unfortunately we would need to find a club run by someone with no brain and for him to agree as they will have to offer more than the £37m he has in his back pocket and, after that, he could still refuse to go to China, Turkey or Azerbaijan.

No club will pay that salary, no matter what the transfer fee. I cannot think of a club that would see utility in shelling out £36m for two years wages. If at least he’d been playing well, then a big club could’ve used him as a finishing touch. There are only about 7 European clubs that pay in that range, and none would need him.
Others would need us to pay in and even then probably a significant amount. This guy’s fair wage is 150-200k

We played it wrong last season.
Hindsight is 20:20 so no blame to anyone but we should have given Emery a longer contract and tasked him with showcasing Ozil with a view to attracting buyers.
As it played out, with the very public dropping from the team and the Europa final performance, nobody is the slightest bit interested.

We absolutely should not have given Emery a longer contract.

Also his primary brief was probably to get us back into top 4, which is fine by me. How he chose to do it, and which players he chooses to utilize to reach that end is entirely up to him. If Ozil was performing at peak levels then we wouldn’t be discussing his contract at all. His form is the main problem as opposed to what we are paying him.

If Özil had something we could use to showcase him that'd mean he was actually good, which would mean there wasn't a problem to begin with. We've showcased Mustafi for three years or whatever, it's not like the buyers are lining up.

flobaba wrote:

We absolutely should not have given Emery a longer contract.

Raul and Vinai seem to be 100% behind the guy so i think the extension is a formality. I also think a longer contract would have allowed him to persevere with an off-form Iwobi, last season, without the pressure of his job depending on top 4.

They have to be or at least appear 100% behind him while he is here. Especially as he was their selection, and just at the end of a disappointing year. Otherwise it reflects badly on themselves and their judgement.

I believe Emery himself also mentioned that he felt no pressure (from upper management) in this job for the first time in a while, so I don’t think most of his decisions throughout the course of last season factored in his own job security. I think he tried to be pragmatic and adapted as he saw the need to as the season developed.

flobaba wrote:

Also his primary brief was probably to get us back into top 4, which is fine by me. How he chose to do it, and which players he chooses to utilize to reach that end is entirely up to him. If Ozil was performing at peak levels then we wouldn’t be discussing his contract at all. His form is the main problem as opposed to what we are paying him.

Its not form its decline. He's done.

He's been done for about 2 years now despite people spinning all sort of excuses for him. The reality is that over his entire Arsenal career the only consistent good form he has shown lasted about half a year. Overall he has been a really disappointing buy, far more baggage than positives

Muswell Hill Gooner wrote:

We played it wrong last season.
Hindsight is 20:20 so no blame to anyone but we should have given Emery a longer contract and tasked him with showcasing Ozil with a view to attracting buyers.
As it played out, with the very public dropping from the team and the Europa final performance, nobody is the slightest bit interested.

Nice idea but Emery is the wrong manager for the task as his style of play does not suit Ozil & visa versa.
We'd want someone like AW mk2 or perhaps a mini Pep = Arteta???

Ozil doesn't suit the style of play of any top manager.

ozil is beyond showcasing at this point

Clrnc wrote:

He's been done for about 2 years now despite people spinning all sort of excuses for him. The reality is that over his entire Arsenal career the only consistent good form he has shown lasted about half a year. Overall he has been a really disappointing buy, far more baggage than positives

For the price and given the other options that summer he was a bad signing. Obviously he was high level enough when we bought him that he still produced some good stuff over the years but we should have done much better. Its a key mistake in the decline of the club.

I think nobody could've seen what would happen to his form though. By all accounts it should've been a great signing.

Captain wrote:

Ozil wasn't a flop.

Yeah. People seem to be getting him confused with Sanchez.

Revision game is strong. Ozil and Sanchez were part of a successful period for the club, and helped break our near decade long trophy drought. Find it really odd that the fans shit on the treble FA Cup era.

Aye, he won three FA Cups here. That's more than guys like Fabregas and van Persie ever managed.

Yeah I'm a big critic of Ozil, but calling him a flop is obviously over the top. He contributed a lot to that 'successful' spell and was hampered by quality of players around him. His decline and lack of fucks over the past couple of seasons could not really be predicted by the club.

I think it's possible to have been an Arsenal player in the 2014-2017 period and still be a flop, but maybe that's just me.

Whilst I agree, I think with the same players we would have been more successful if instead of Ozil we signed a £42m striker or CB. He was our first big money signing and he has been underwhelming.

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert wrote:

Ozil was a genuine flop.

he's been disappointing but not a flop. he's basically served the purpose he was brought in for at the time - a marquee signing to show we have clout, and could lift us out of our barren trophy spell. wenger hoped - like i did - he'd become more than just an ornament if given more responsibility. he came here at 24 years of age, so there was still some potential upside in him. it just didn't pan out that way. looking back, getting ozil instead of suarez in 2013 turned out to be quite a turning point for both arsenal and liverpool

deardevil wrote:

Revision game is strong. Ozil and Sanchez were part of a successful period for the club, and helped break our near decade long trophy drought. Find it really odd that the fans shit on the treble FA Cup era.

Was par for the course so far as AW's team building went post 07/08 = a couple of top class players to carry the team whilst we bring in developing players and squad filler.

I still think we would’ve gotten so much more from Ozil if we had brought in another elite attacking player when he and Sanchez first came. Ozil creates space like very few players can. If we had another top scorer playing off him 4 or 5 years ago, we would’ve had a nearly unstoppable attack.

The problem with Ozil was we never understood his role in a team. He’s a catalyst. And there’s only so much a catalyst can do when there isn’t enough around it.

Claudius wrote:

I still think we would’ve gotten so much more from Ozil if we had brought in another elite attacking player when he and Sanchez first came. Ozil creates space like very few players can. If we had another top scorer playing off him 4 or 5 years years, we would’ve had a nearly unstoppable attack.

The problem with Ozil was we never understood his role in a team. He’s a catalyst. And there’s only so much a catalyst can do when there isn’t enough around it.

If I could shake your hand, I would.

A playmaker job is to create for others, but you need movement. Create for Walcott, Giroud, Ox, Iwobi etc has been a hopeless task.

Even Alexis wanted the ball at his feet, to run at the opposition.

Ozil might not track back, might not work hard off the ball defensively, but he has not been a flop.

Horrible, horrible, team construction.

A highlight reel of beautiful moments? Of course. But he's still been a flop and I can't wait till he finally leaves the club.

ohboy!!! wrote:
Claudius wrote:

I still think we would’ve gotten so much more from Ozil if we had brought in another elite attacking player when he and Sanchez first came. Ozil creates space like very few players can. If we had another top scorer playing off him 4 or 5 years years, we would’ve had a nearly unstoppable attack.

The problem with Ozil was we never understood his role in a team. He’s a catalyst. And there’s only so much a catalyst can do when there isn’t enough around it.

A playmaker job is to create for others, but you need movement. Create for Walcott, Giroud, Ox, Iwobi etc has been a hopeless task.

People said this for years, but then we got Laca and Auba so the excuses changed.

Walcott and Giroud have plenty of flaws but movement isn't one of them.

I think these discussions are a waste of time when argued as extremes because the truth is always somewhere in between.
The consensus has been that the biggest hole we've failed to fill for years has been Vieira (the platform for the team).
It's true that the Ozil who was one of the best number 10s in the world ceased to exist after the back injury that has limited his physical capability. His weakened frame also means he cannot compete physically and is easily pushed off the ball. He no longer is a strong runner with the ball and now has to beat opponents using pure football ability.

He isn't great anymore but isn't useless either and Emery picks him as he is still amongst the best passers of the ball

@lorddulaarsenal wrote:

Sounds like he’s off to Tottenham

Yep.

Mohamed Bouhafsi
?Info @RMCsport : Coup de théâtre dans le dossier #Saliba ! #Tottenham a transmis une offre dépassant les 30M€ hors bonus pour Saliba. Une offre dépassant les attentes de #ASSE. Réunion demain pour finaliser l’operation alors que #Arsenal avait trouvé un accord global.

Yep, we haggeld over 4 mil in bonuses and we are about to lose him to Spurs. Spurs want to close the deal tomorrow and have offered 30 million up front and bonuses. We offered 26 bonuses included and payment in 2 years. Close this one up.