Will Rob Holding be back in time for the start of next season?

Hope so. If both him and Bellerin can come back things will look slightly better. Sign a proper central defender and stick AMN out on the left. With Leno in goal, that could be a dynamic, quick, and skilled defense. Maybe we can get someone like Gundogan cheap and stabilize our central midfield. Bring in also a quick winger, and maybe we can actually line up a decent team next season. Get rid of Ozil, Elneny, Lichtsteiner and Mustafi, and give the likes of Willock more chances. That's a semi decent first team and squad imo.

Even if they are back training, they’ll have gone 6+ months without playing so they won’t be performing well for a while I don’t think.

Such is our shit state they’ll probably be rushed back but ideally they’d be playing u23 games before Xmas.

We didn't finish 3rd because we failed to beat Palace and Brighton at home in the run-in, losing one and drawing the other, nevermind the away performances. I don't see how we are in a shit state. I really don't think we are. I don't think we were pushing above our capability either. We should have finished 3rd this season. It will still be pretty even between us, Chelsea, Tottenham and Untied. The squads will all get stretched in Europe too. We just need to shore up a couple of areas to be worthy of the points that will make a difference in the end.

The problem with AMN is his first touch can be dodgy as evidenced early in the final. As a wing back when you receive the ball you're nearly always pressed aggressively straight away, so first touch needs to be immaculate. Otherwise you're just trying to run back onto the ball after a loose touch and can only pass it back to one of the defenders. Tough to progress up the pitch without real technicians all over these days.

Hunter wrote:

Even if they are back training, they’ll have gone 6+ months without playing so they won’t be performing well for a while I don’t think.  

Such is our shit state they’ll probably be rushed back but ideally they’d be playing u23 games before Xmas.

Also who knows if Bellerin will have retained his pace when he returns.

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert wrote:

The problem with AMN is his first touch can be dodgy as evidenced early in the final. As a wing back when you receive the ball you're nearly always pressed aggressively straight away, so first touch needs to be immaculate. Otherwise you're just trying to run back onto the ball after a loose touch and can only pass it back to one of the defenders. Tough to progress up the pitch without real technicians all over these days.

In fairness that's an issue with Bellerin too. Most of the time he receives the ball it ends up back with one of the CBs. 

The better teams can recycle the ball through the defence from side to side and look as if they have a plan, they look as if they're looking for space and an opportunity to move it forwards. We move it side to side because we can't get our fullbacks or deeper midfielders to open themselves up with the first touch in a way that allows them to move it forwards quickly. 

Thought Koscielny gave Maitland-Niles a hell pass for the second goal, smashed it into him.

Sums this team up though, concede one goal and they think they need to score straight away and go to pot the useless bastards.

Rohit wrote:

We didn't finish 3rd because we failed to beat Palace and Brighton at home in the run-in, losing one and drawing the other, nevermind the away performances. I don't see how we are in a shit state. I really don't think we are. I don't think we were pushing above our capability either. We should have finished 3rd this season. It will still be pretty even between us, Chelsea, Tottenham and Untied. The squads will all get stretched in Europe too. We just need to shore up a couple of areas to be worthy of the points that will make a difference in the end.

In principle I agree.  

In AW's last season we finished 2nd= behind MC with MU on 47 points so far as Home form goes, and we were 4 points ahead of both LFC & TH.  This season we finished 3rd behind MC & LFC on 45 points, and 3 points above CFC and 7 above TH.  Our GD dropped from +34 to +26, but interestingly whilst we scored less we also conceded less.
Last season our Away form ranked 11th with 16 points and -11 GD.  This season we finished 8th with 25 points and -5 GD.  Interestingly we conceded 4 more goals than last season, but we also scored 11 more.
As such it's still our Away form that is at issue as our Home form continues to be as strong as the top of the PL.  Despite the collapse in the run home we can still see that there have been improvements.

The only reason I don't believe it will happen is because this team and squad are about to be ripped up and will likely be quite different and an unknown commodity next season.

It's different when you look at the season as a whole obviously. But failing to win against Palace and Brighton at home in the run in with 3rd place for grabs is a complete bottle job.

Rohit wrote:

It's different when you look at the season as a whole obviously. But falling to win against Palace and Brighton at home in the run in with 3rd place for grabs is a complete bottle job.

Absolutely.

Rohit wrote:

We didn't finish 3rd because we failed to beat Palace and Brighton at home in the run-in, losing one and drawing the other, nevermind the away performances. I don't see how we are in a shit state. I really don't think we are. I don't think we were pushing above our capability either. We should have finished 3rd this season. It will still be pretty even between us, Chelsea, Tottenham and Untied. The squads will all get stretched in Europe too. We just need to shore up a couple of areas to be worthy of the points that will make a difference in the end.

I used to think hypothetically like this too and feel next season will be different but its 3 years out of UCL already and the table dont lie. You can pick any random matches in any season to say it's a bottle job we should have won the title but I think ultimately it's not that simple.

Chelsea and Spurs should have won some other matches as well and as a whole as a club we are abit further away from them and wholesale changes is needed

Clrnc wrote:

Rohit wrote:

We didn't finish 3rd because we failed to beat Palace and Brighton at home in the run-in, losing one and drawing the other, nevermind the away performances. I don't see how we are in a shit state. I really don't think we are. I don't think we were pushing above our capability either. We should have finished 3rd this season. It will still be pretty even between us, Chelsea, Tottenham and Untied. The squads will all get stretched in Europe too. We just need to shore up a couple of areas to be worthy of the points that will make a difference in the end.

I used to think hypothetically like this too and feel next season will be different but its 3 years out of UCL already and the table dont lie. You can pick any random matches in any season to say it's a bottle job we should have won the title but I think ultimately it's not that simple.

Chelsea and Spurs should have won some other matches as well and as a whole as a club we are abit further away from them and wholesale changes is needed

Clrnc has it right. You end up with the points you earn and not a single one more. Across a season the micro trends usually cancel eachother out. We overperformed during the fall when we barely created anything and still picked up three points every weekend. A collapse was always in the cards, and it hit around Christmas. Then we pulled ourselves together again but still couldn't find anything to build on, and we collapsed once more.

The bigger question isn't why we couldn't win against Palace or Brighton on those particular match days - it's why we're so easy to beat generally; why we've kept playing aimless football that feels hollowed out at the core and is prone to these repeating boom-bust-cycles, why we've stuck with a system with five defenders when we went for months only having one or two that were healthy, why we've kept relying on the fullbacks to create everything when they got injured early on, and so forth.

Haven't you answered it many times over already?

Maitland-Niles gets too much criticism. I think he has improved a little bit during this season. Which is not too bad considering he's returning from injury and playing for a team that is a big mess. I think he'll play well next season.

Klaus wrote:

Clrnc wrote:

I used to think hypothetically like this too and feel next season will be different but its 3 years out of UCL already and the table dont lie. You can pick any random matches in any season to say it's a bottle job we should have won the title but I think ultimately it's not that simple.

Chelsea and Spurs should have won some other matches as well and as a whole as a club we are abit further away from them and wholesale changes is needed

Clrnc has it right. You end up with the points you earn and not a single one more. Across a season the micro trends usually cancel eachother out. We overperformed during the fall when we barely created anything and still picked up three points every weekend. A collapse was always in the cards, and it hit around Christmas. Then we pulled ourselves together again but still couldn't find anything to build on, and we collapsed once more.

The bigger question isn't why we couldn't win against Palace or Brighton on those particular match days - it's why we're so easy to beat generally; why we've kept playing aimless football that feels hollowed out at the core and is prone to these repeating boom-bust-cycles, why we've stuck with a system with five defenders when we went for months only having one or two that were healthy, why we've kept relying on the fullbacks to create everything when they got injured early on, and so forth.

This made me think of something I was reading, that one of the issues raised comparing this season to AW's last was that in looking to play on the flanks has gone to the weakest areas of the squad and the least utilised under AW.  Secondly the work rates required in midfield have a similar effect.  The biggest strength under AW was our short passing play through the middle in attack, retaining possession and numbers in defence.  The new style under Emery is essentially more workman like, and there is a very real danger that without a ability to sign players with both work rate and technical ability, that we'll simply become little more than functional in our play.

Anzac wrote:

The new style under Emery is essentially more workman like, and there is a very real danger that without a ability to sign players with both work rate and technical ability, that we'll simply become little more than functional in our play.

I think that's well summed up, yes. Then there's the consideration that players with technique AND workrate are as rare as top-end strikers. It looks like a good idea on paper - a couple of midfielders with great skill and technique who can run all day sounds great! - until you look at the actual market and realise that your target is Marco Verratti, and good luck with getting him.

If this is our plan then we did great damage to ourselves before the transfer window even opened too. Ramsey was a great compromise between skills and workrate who scored high in both columns, and we rescinded the contract offer and let him go for free.

He was never going to sign. Framing it that way is totally disingenuous.

Yeah Raul said we couldn't compete with the offers he had from others so withdrew it and moved on