I think if I was in the US I would find it difficult to vote for Biden, he really is a terrible candidate.
Obviously I wouldn't vote for the madman Trump either.

Can't help but feel democrats will kick a few own goals between now and november. Championing buttigieg as a model for the future of the party is just the kind of tone deaf stuff that disengages voters further

then you'd be one less person voting for Biden. People on the right don't have that problem. they may be fewer in number but these are existential issues. my. friends on the right do not like Trump but they want their religion and value systems protected. any president on the left will erode that.

Biden isn't going to build the great society. but the other guy is repressing media, normalising corruption and nepotism, and rapidly devaluing expertise. but if that isn't a problem, then people should stay home.

it also allows the country to continue to have a conservative minority but a republican president and senate. the amount of generational power that holds is unjust

Claudius wrote:

Biden isn't going to build the great society. but the other guy is repressing media, normalising corruption and nepotism, and rapidly devaluing expertise. but if that isn't a problem, then people should stay home.

As opposed to the other American presidents who have held office this century...?

Claudius wrote:

then you'd be one less person voting for Biden. People on the right don't have that problem. they may be  fewer in number but these are existential issues. my. friends on the right do not like Trump but they want their religion and value systems protected. any president on the left will erode that.

Biden isn't going to build the great society. but the other guy is repressing media, normalising corruption and nepotism, and rapidly devaluing expertise. but if that isn't a problem, then people should stay home.

it  also allows the country to continue to have a conservative minority but a republican president and senate. the amount of generational power  that holds is unjust

I hear you Claudius, I'm not American so really I'm just musing on how I would feel if I had to vote for Biden for the reasons you've just outlined.

I suppose the question I'd have to answer for myself is just how destructive another four years of Trump would be?
Focusing on his words and actions during this pandemic alone is probably enough to answer that question.

Biden looks like somebody who risks not lasting another 5 years so perhaps his VP pick might make voting Biden more appealing for reasons other than him not being Trump.

The biggest factor is the ability of the President to pick Supreme Court judges. That shit sticks around for decades and for that I'd 100% rather it was a Democrat than a Republican.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52584774

I've got no comment on whether these allegations are true/false but there is some evidence from the 90s which backs her claims but also some inconsistencies.

However this case has brutally exposed the hypocrisy of some of the Democrats and their followers in America. Politicians and supporters had essentially in the past come out and said people should be presumed guilty and have to prove their innocence and a lot of high profile campaigners on that have suddenly gone quiet. Especially around the Supreme Court Judge Brett Kavanaugh who was smeared as some kind of sexual abuser when the government were trying to confirm him to his position, no idea if he is or isn't and that's the point, he was assumed to be guilty. The lawyer she is using has been smeared as he has a photo with Trump yet they didn't have a problem with him previously as also represented Harvey Weinstein's victims. They rightly talked about how some of Bernie supporters had got quite nasty with them yet happy to dish that nastiness out to this lady. Fair few left leaning TV stations trying to avoid interviewing her when this story broke hoping things would just go away.  

What a mess the political system has become out there. Trump is gonna walk this election again, what a fucking shambles.

Handsy joe has quietly been polling well, doing minimal press, and letting trump fumble over the covid crisis. He won the primaries without having to do much, its possible he nicks the general in a similarly magoo-ish fashion. The drumpf campaign is clearly not above hypocrisy, but most of their avenues of attack on biden - corruption, racism, sexual harrasment, gaffes - are things drumpf himself is up to his eyeballs in

Yeah, a few months ago I would have thought Trump would walk it but the Covid-19 shambles will help Biden unless a lot of voters just choose to stay at home.

Gazza M wrote:

Handsy joe has quietly been polling well, doing minimal press, and letting trump fumble over the covid crisis. He won the primaries without having to do much, its possible he nicks the general in a similarly magoo-ish fashion. The drumpf campaign is clearly not above hypocrisy, but most of their avenues of attack on biden - corruption, racism, sexual harrasment, gaffes - are things drumpf himself is up to his eyeballs in

Yeah but none of that wasn't true in 2016 too. Don't forget he invited Bill Clintons victims to a debate and sat them up front. Trump isn't trying to make out he's purer than Biden, he just wants people to see Biden as being as dirty as he is.

If the relative handful of swingstate voters that swung to vote Trump in 2016 didn't care that Trump was dirty then the "dirty" won't come into their decision making on Biden v Trump?

Those voters could easily vote Biden over Trump.

It's possible that the Bernie supporting progressive wing would not have supported Biden anyway, even before all of this.

I imagine the election will hinge on how Covid plays out over the coming months.

Qwiss! wrote:

Gazza M wrote:

Handsy joe has quietly been polling well, doing minimal press, and letting trump fumble over the covid crisis. He won the primaries without having to do much, its possible he nicks the general in a similarly magoo-ish fashion. The drumpf campaign is clearly not above hypocrisy, but most of their avenues of attack on biden - corruption, racism, sexual harrasment, gaffes - are things drumpf himself is up to his eyeballs in

Yeah but none of that wasn't true in 2016 too. Don't forget he invited Bill Clintons victims to a debate and sat them up front. Trump isn't trying to make out he's purer than Biden, he just wants people to see Biden as being as dirty as he is.

Clinton was an intensely disliked candidate, for a number of reasons. Biden is nowhere as disliked

y va marquer wrote:

If the relative handful of swingstate voters that swung to vote Trump in 2016 didn't care that Trump was dirty then the "dirty" won't come into their decision making on Biden v Trump?

Those voters could easily vote Biden over Trump.

It's possible that the Bernie supporting progressive wing would not have supported Biden anyway, even before all of this.

I imagine the election will hinge on how Covid plays out over the coming months.

I think theres a lot of damage being done to Biden with "progressives" and not just the Bernie supporters. I've seen a lot of people who would be critical of Bernie and "Bernie Bros" also being put off by Bidens record. I'm not sure how many of them are in swing states though.

The Covid issue will come into I'm sure but how much worse can Trump do? He told people to drink bleach.

Gazza M wrote:

Qwiss! wrote:

Yeah but none of that wasn't true in 2016 too. Don't forget he invited Bill Clintons victims to a debate and sat them up front. Trump isn't trying to make out he's purer than Biden, he just wants people to see Biden as being as dirty as he is.

Clinton was an intensely disliked candidate, for a number of reasons. Biden is nowhere as disliked

Thats why the Trump camp will want to air his dirty laundry as much as possible. Its not so easy to like "Uncle Joe" when you hear his rape victim on TV.

I think it's important to be precise about the description of the crime.
Tara Reade said he sexually assaulted her, she has not said she was raped.

It does women no favours when rape and sexual assault are conflated.

The fact that these two are all that is to be considered for president is tragic.

Qwiss! wrote:

y va marquer wrote:

If the relative handful of swingstate voters that swung to vote Trump in 2016 didn't care that Trump was dirty then the "dirty" won't come into their decision making on Biden v Trump?

Those voters could easily vote Biden over Trump.

It's possible that the Bernie supporting progressive wing would not have supported Biden anyway, even before all of this.

I imagine the election will hinge on how Covid plays out over the coming months.

I think theres a lot of damage being done to Biden with "progressives" and not just the Bernie supporters. I've seen a lot of people who would be critical of Bernie and "Bernie Bros" also being put off by Bidens record. I'm not sure how many of them are in swing states though.

The Covid issue will come into I'm sure but how much worse can Trump do? He told people to drink bleach.

He is currently being advised to question the number of reported Covid deaths, which would seem to indicate that his campaign see his handling of the pandemic as a threat to his chances.
In brutal terms there will be a tipping point in terms of how many deaths even his most rabid supporters will accept, so the game will be to convince them they are being lied to.

It is terrible that Biden is not being censured for his predatory behaviour, just as it's terrible Trump hasn't been. But it's entirely predictable.

The level of decline and dysfunction Biden exhibits in his video messages and interviews seems pretty unprecedented, though.

I was asking for a historical example of someone put forward as a suitable candidate for high office who seemed to be so impaired the other day, best anyone could come up with was Charles II of Spain.

My main point of curiosity / worry about the coming election is how far both candidates will go with anti-China sentiment, both have been rolling it out in their recent campaign propaganda.

A tendency to more and more antagonistic nationalism and racism, against a backdrop of precipitous economic downturn, allied to the greatest military arsenal in history … it does my head in a little bit.

Battleground polling from august onwards is the thing to keep an eye on

People got swept up in hillary's strong national polling in 2016, and there was an air of complacency around the way tjlhe democrats campaigned in swing states