Football and politics: Page 3 - The Arsenal discussion community: One More in the Tolly

Football and politics

goon

RC8 wrote:
goon wrote:
The problem with this line of thinking is that you're grouping individuals into a group that they've been born into, not chosen to be in. So while the general community of "orange players" may be happy to be identified in a certain way, many may not regardless of whether it's positive or negative. For me, that's fundamentally wrong.

I can understand this perspective and, for what it's worth, I think it is indeed more ethically defensible than the status quo where some types of stereotyping are OK and other types are not. It assumes that the character and even physical attributes of individuals are never to be judged on the basis of their ethnicity, sex, etc.

If you are going to be intellectually honest about implementing this view, however, it does necessarily require the suppression of all stereotyping - not just whatever is considered 'racist' or 'oppressive' from an arbitrary standpoint.

In practice it means that blue people should insist on equal treatment between themselves and orange populations even if a majority of orange people see themselves as different and even if they are different at the population level. We know that many orange people will not take kindly to this, much as blue people themselves don't when their collective group identity is questioned.

In other words, it's conceptually sound but much harder to implement.

It’s hard, probably impossible, but I don’t think that should prevent it from being the goal or from it being encouraged. Generalising and stereotyping is something that’s far more prevalent among the older demographic (and yes, I do see the irony in this statement), the younger generation having been raised in a more “PC” and socially aware environment are far more reluctant to go there. The result is it will become more diluted, which in turn means it will have fewer practical implications.

That’s how you implement this view form a practical perspective, by sticking with the narrative.

Bold Tone

When the DM calls you racist ...
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-6640001/Bollywood-star-Esha-Gupta-slammed-sharing-racist-remarks-Arsenals-Alex-Iwobi.html

arsedocmd

Why in bellerin thread?

QuincyAbeyie

Because she dated him.

arsedocmd

Oh wow. Never knew that

flobaba

Yeah? But did you know she was possibly, probably racist? Are you dark skinned or light skinned, arsedoc? And do you think that affects your perception of our players and their abilities/intelligence as it does for most people in Indian society?

arsedocmd

Are you asking me or making some rhetorical point? Can never be sure with you flobs 😛.

Also prolly should go in the tolly discussion section maybe.

TambourineMan

Large portions of Indian society is definitely racist. Was in Mumbai around a year ago with a group of people attending the wedding of a colleague. A small group of us wanted to make a holiday of it and decided to spend a bit of time in the region after the wedding was done. To save on costs, we decided to use AirBnB and tasked a person who happened to be black with the responsibility of sorting it out. The number of replies she got saying "sorry, no Africans allowed" was crazy. We had to use another account to get anywhere. There is a weird obsession with colour in India. It's disheartening.

Claudius

Tambourine Man wrote:
Large portions of Indian society is definitely racist. Was in Mumbai around a year ago with a group of people attending the wedding of a colleague. A small group of us wanted to make a holiday of it and decided to spend a bit of time in the region after the wedding was done. To save on costs, we decided to use AirBnB and tasked a person who happened to be black with the responsibility of sorting it out. The number of replies she got saying "sorry, no Africans allowed" was crazy. We had to use another account to get anywhere. There is a weird obsession with colour in India. It's disheartening.

I can imagine. Be black with an AirBnB account in a lot of places though and you'll see a lot of interesting things in the absence of automatic booking. Creates transparency, I guess. For a long time I didn't even use AirBnB. The best experience was with another app - Uber in Amsterdam. Middle Eastern guy arrives to pick me. I walk up to the car (I've checked the plates). I get to the car, the guy looks up, he's got the app up. He claims he's not the guy and drives off. 😆

Burnwinter

The number of ads for skin whitening products everywhere on the subcontinent is extraordinary.

Really sad to hear that about the Airbnb experience though Tambourine, if I'd been your mate I would've just about handed in my tickets I reckon.

Jed

Bold Tone wrote:
When the DM calls you racist ...
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-6640001/Bollywood-star-Esha-Gupta-slammed-sharing-racist-remarks-Arsenals-Alex-Iwobi.html

That's a fucking disgrace. Bollocks to her "apology" as well.

Klaus

Consciously posted it on instagram too, because she thought it was too funny to keep private, before she received some backlash and removed it. Completely shameless.

MuswellHillGooner

What apology?
I don't see her addressing Iwobi.
She says sorry if you thought it was racist to whoever is upset but not sorry for posting it and regret for getting caught rather than completely rejecting the sentiment.

jones

Claudius wrote:
Tambourine Man wrote:
Large portions of Indian society is definitely racist. Was in Mumbai around a year ago with a group of people attending the wedding of a colleague. A small group of us wanted to make a holiday of it and decided to spend a bit of time in the region after the wedding was done. To save on costs, we decided to use AirBnB and tasked a person who happened to be black with the responsibility of sorting it out. The number of replies she got saying "sorry, no Africans allowed" was crazy. We had to use another account to get anywhere. There is a weird obsession with colour in India. It's disheartening.

I can imagine. Be black with an AirBnB account in a lot of places though and you'll see a lot of interesting things in the absence of automatic booking. Creates transparency, I guess. For a long time I didn't even use AirBnB. The best experience was with another app - Uber in Amsterdam. Middle Eastern guy arrives to pick me. I walk up to the car (I've checked the plates). I get to the car, the guy looks up, he's got the app up. He claims he's not the guy and drives off. 😆

Let that be a lesson to you Claude to never use either app again.

On that actress "sorry you thought it was racist" has to be the worst non-apology I've heard it in a while.

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert

Fuck her.

Pepe LeFrits

Doesn't entirely surprise me to be honest. Seems to be a bit of a thing amongst wealthy, privately educated types in India. A few years back I went on a few dates with a silver spoon type who'd moved to Dublin for some consultancy work; when she started talking about Indians, I think from the South (she was from Delhi), being lazy, stupid and generally disgusting, I bailed. Had 1 date with another Indian woman last year who again had moved to Dublin for a similarly wanky, business-buzzwords type gig and she was the most self-obsessed person I've ever met. In fairness to her though she might not have been a racist. I didn't stick around long enough to find out.

It's probably not just an Indian thing though. Started thinking of Boris Johnson while writing the above...

Rohit

It's pathetic and embarrassing, that tweet.

You all wouldn't believe some of the stuff to be Indian parents do, even the more educated, to have a 'fair' child.

There is far too much discrimination here, not just colour based but even caste, creed, religion. It's sad becausea huge percentage of people get discriminated against but that doesn't stop them from discriminating either.

Mirth

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-35483893

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-39415903

Sadly the problem goes beyond just a few racist tweets.

flobaba

I would really like to see some sort of official response and/ or action from the club.

flobaba

Mirth wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-35483893

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-39415903

Sadly the problem goes beyond just a few racist tweets.

https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/colour-time-colourism-india-180906101053056.html

Oh it’s definitely a huge issue as has been mentioned by many on here. I wonder how it began.

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