Time for the fans to stick by the manager: Page 17 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Time for the fans to stick by the manager

QuincyAbeyie

flobaba wrote:
jones wrote:
Really, Özil is the reason for our recent upturn in form?

I think Ozil's return (and obvious commitment and improved work rate) is a huge part of our improved form and confidence

I think it's very important to remember that bold part, and not just say that if Emery had played Özil all the time we would've always played like this.

goon

Is it that obvious? Qs complained about it just two games ago.

I've not seen anything in the last few games that suggests he's working harder or is more committed than ever before, it's his quality that's been shining through.

If Emery can get him to maintain this sort of form for a prelonged period then you can give him props for how he's been managed. But there's a reason why he's not being unanimously chosen to start on Sat, and it's because nobody is sure we'll see a top performance from him in the next game, Emery included. For the time being though, all it's shown to me is we could have used him over the last few months.

Claudius

He's lasting 90 minutes. That's a good sign. Maybe not for a start on Saturday, but at least he went the distance in an assured performance. Will be like a new signing down the stretch. Throw in Suarez. 2 new signings. Boom!

QuincyAbeyie

goon wrote:
Is it that obvious?

Not really, I meant more that you should remember that this is an improved Özil, and that we haven't been keeping a player who always plays like this on the bench for months.

flobaba

@[deleted], I think that was one of his first games back, right? He looked understandably rusty (remember the poor finishing?) but overall I thought he was decent. Not great, but decent.

I feel like the manager is being even handed, and basing his match day selections on what he sees in training - prioritizing professionalism and application over talent, and personally I do respect that. I am fairly certain that if something had not changed in Ozil’s approach in the past few weeks he’d still be riding pine... And I am seeing what appears to me to be an improved effort by Ozil to help the team on the defensive side of things and to help keep our shape when we lose the ball. If or when he loses form, or the manager thinks he is not performing to instruction, I expect he knows that he can and will be taken off, and I’m glad for this. No sacred cows - we can’t afford that right now.

The team has to be given more importance than any individual player. It was a situation that could have backfired terribly with us ending up like Chelsea and Sarri, where it is clear he isn’t the boss in that dressing room, but Emery has handled it brilliantly in my opinion. Kudos to him.

Claudius

Quincy Abeyie wrote:
goon wrote:
Is it that obvious?

Not really, I meant more that you should remember that this is an improved Özil, and that we haven't been keeping a player who always plays like this on the bench for months.

How do you guys plan to prove whether Ozil would've been just as good these last 5 months without having sat (for whatever reason)?
We risk ending up in a tedious argument about what could've been with Ozil all season long with very little evidence to back up that he could have or couldn't have performed well or should have or should not have played. Let's just be glad that he's playing now and has put in 2 decent performances in a week.

flobaba

These are opinions sir. Proof isn’t necessary.

Rohit

flobaba wrote:
The team has to be given more importance than any individual player. It was a situation that could have backfired terribly with us ending up like Chelsea and Sarri, where it is clear he isn’t the boss in that dressing room, but Emery has handled it brilliantly in my opinion. Kudos to him.

The team should also be above the manager's desire to assert his authority. It's not unreasonable to believe that Emery could have given a little more room to Ozil and he might have possibly had an influence when we were struggling. We may have had a few more points on board.

It's all subjective though and ultimately one has to hand it to Emery if he continues to extract these performances from our most talented individual because that will surely get us top four.

As an aside, it's impressive how Emery has used the rest of his squad and very rarely has the rotation unsettled the team. We do look quite fresh for this stage of the season.

Klaus

flobaba wrote:
But credit must be given to Emery for being able to coax out this version of him again.

It really mustn't. It just raises more questions about why he hasn't played Özil for most of the season.

MistaT

Because he's (apparently) done fuck all in training and to get in gameshape.

QuincyAbeyie

Claudius wrote:
Quincy Abeyie wrote:
Not really, I meant more that you should remember that this is an improved Özil, and that we haven't been keeping a player who always plays like this on the bench for months.

How do you guys plan to prove whether Ozil would've been just as good these last 5 months without having sat (for whatever reason)?
We risk ending up in a tedious argument about what could've been with Ozil all season long with very little evidence to back up that he could have or couldn't have performed well or should have or should not have played. Let's just be glad that he's playing now and has put in 2 decent performances in a week.

I mean, do you think he has played like this when given the chance earlier this season? I don't, but if you do that's not a discussion I'm willing to take because our opinions would be so far off I don't see the point. It seems weird to me that if you bench a player for being bad, the first reaction when he gets another chance and takes it well is that he should never have been benched.

flobaba

Klaus wrote:
flobaba wrote:
But credit must be given to Emery for being able to coax out this version of him again.

It really mustn't. It just raises more questions about why he hasn't played Özil for most of the season.

Did you read the previous posts? That’s what I think the answer to the question is.

Coombs

Klaus wrote:
flobaba wrote:
But credit must be given to Emery for being able to coax out this version of him again.

It really mustn't. It just raises more questions about why he hasn't played Özil for most of the season.

It really doesn't. That's at least as much on Ozil as it is Emery.

Klaus

MistaT wrote:
Because he's (apparently) done fuck all in training and to get in gameshape.

I believe that as much as I believe Emery when he claimed Özil was injured for weeks when he was not. He's just trying to save face because freezing him out of the team didn't work.

Klaus

Coombs wrote:
Klaus wrote:
It really mustn't. It just raises more questions about why he hasn't played Özil for most of the season.

It really doesn't. That's at least as much on Ozil as it is Emery.

Okay.

flobaba

Rohit wrote:
flobaba wrote:
The team has to be given more importance than any individual player. It was a situation that could have backfired terribly with us ending up like Chelsea and Sarri, where it is clear he isn’t the boss in that dressing room, but Emery has handled it brilliantly in my opinion. Kudos to him.

The team should also be above the manager's desire to assert his authority. It's not unreasonable to believe that Emery could have given a little more room to Ozil and he might have possibly had an influence when we were struggling. We may have had a few more points on board.

In some instances, you absolutely have to assert your authority. Especially being a new manager in a new environment, and trying to instill a new culture/approach. You give Ozil more room from the start and you essentially undercut your message of “team over individual”. And Emery did play him in a few games earlier this season where Ozil absolutely shat the bed with his performances. I know I’ve advocated giving superstar players more leeway, but you have to be able to trust said player, or maybe they have Messi-level influence on proceedings consistently before one does this, and definitely not in season one when you are trying to redefine the team.

jones

Klaus wrote:
MistaT wrote:
Because he's (apparently) done fuck all in training and to get in gameshape.

I believe that as much as I believe Emery when he claimed Özil was injured for weeks when he was not. He's just trying to save face because freezing him out of the team didn't work.

When did he claim Özil was injured when he wasn't? Genuine question

Also is Ornstein lying too about Özil not putting in enough effort in training?

Meatwad

points wise this is our best season in a long time and it's the only one where ozil has been challenged by the manager. there is no proof that allowed to behave how he wants we would be better off.

Klaus

jones wrote:
Klaus wrote:
I believe that as much as I believe Emery when he claimed Özil was injured for weeks when he was not. He's just trying to save face because freezing him out of the team didn't work.

When did he claim Özil was injured when he wasn't? Genuine question

Also is Ornstein lying too about Özil not putting in enough effort in training?

Ornstein says what the club tells him to say, who cares about him. It was pure speculation too as far as I remember.

Emery said Özil was injured when he first got dropped. Not sure when that was. Bournemouth? And then again after the Spurs game, which is when his twtter account contradicted the official story. There was some suggestion recently that he was sick for an away game which was contradicted too. Since then Emery has sometimes said it's a tactical decision, that he can play whoever he wants, and that he doesn't need to motivate his decisions to the press. He's right on all three of course, but let's cut the bullshit. Özil has no more been dropped for performing lacklustre in training than Ramsey has.

Claudius

Klaus wrote:
jones wrote:
When did he claim Özil was injured when he wasn't? Genuine question

Also is Ornstein lying too about Özil not putting in enough effort in training?

Ornstein says what the club tells him to say, who cares about him. It was pure speculation too as far as I remember.

Emery said Özil was injured when he first got dropped. Not sure when that was. Bournemouth? And then again after the Spurs game, which is when his twtter account contradicted the official story. Since then Emery has sometimes said it's a tactical decision, that he can play whoever he wants, and that he doesn't need to motivate his decisions to the press. He's right on all three of course, but let's cut the bullshit. Özil has no more been dropped for performing lacklustre in training than Ramsey has.

And you know all of this how?

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