Because peak Wenger is better than peak Klopp. Peak Wenger matched up with the best of all time with half the resources.
All Things Arsene Wenger
Rohit wrote:Because peak Wenger is better than peak Klopp. Peak Wenger matched up with the best of all time with half the resources.
Aye wenger was ahead of furgusan in head to head games until the stadium rebuild. That's some achievement considering the cult status of Fergus.
They were tied head to head going into the CL semi final 2nd leg in 2009. Wenger lost the first two to Fergusson, one of them was a League Cup game, then went ahead and didn't fall behind till 2009. I hope my memory isn't evading me here but this is what I remember.
Probably congratulating him on his new kid.
https://shewore.com/
BOOK REVIEW: Caviar and Sausages by Tony Kokkinos
Arsenal in The Time of Wenger
That headline gave me a good shock
I wonder if I'll ever care about football as deeply again as I did during that Wenger era.
I think Arsene was fundamentally correct when he said that love for a club comes from recognising a piece of yourself in it and its values. We stood for something that felt important both on and off the pitch. The issue has never been that Wenger eventually left Arsenal. The issue is that every passing year makes it more and more apparent that all the values I cared about seems to have left with him.
People used to talk about how he'd squander his legacy by overstaying his welcome, but I think we're the one who have squandered it in the years since he left; not by underperforming on the pitch but by forgetting all about the sporting and aesthetic principles that even on a bad day would distinguish us.
I don't know if other people really give a shit about stuff like this. They're allowed to not give a shit of course, it's not like they're obliged to just to support a football club, but for me it was always a large part of it, and it's just fucking sad to see Arteta's football philosophy on display every week when you know how we used to play.
Klaus wrote:I wonder if I'll ever care about football as deeply again as I did during that Wenger era.
I think Arsene was fundamentally correct when he said that love for a club comes from recognising a piece of yourself in it and its values. We stood for something that felt important both on and off the pitch. The issue has never been that Wenger eventually left Arsenal. The issue is that every passing year makes it more and more apparent that all the values I cared about seems to have left with him.
People used to talk about how he'd squander his legacy by overstaying his welcome, but I think we're the one who have squandered it in the years since he left; not by underperforming on the pitch but by forgetting all about the sporting and aesthetic principles that even on a bad day would distinguish us.
I don't know if other people really give a shit about stuff like this. They're allowed to not give a shit of course, it's not like they're obliged to just to support a football club, but for me it was always a large part of it, and it's just fucking sad to see Arteta's football philosophy on display every week when you know how we used to play.
Isn't this part of Arteta's talk about bringing back the club culture?
Anzac wrote:Klaus wrote:I wonder if I'll ever care about football as deeply again as I did during that Wenger era.
I think Arsene was fundamentally correct when he said that love for a club comes from recognising a piece of yourself in it and its values. We stood for something that felt important both on and off the pitch. The issue has never been that Wenger eventually left Arsenal. The issue is that every passing year makes it more and more apparent that all the values I cared about seems to have left with him.
People used to talk about how he'd squander his legacy by overstaying his welcome, but I think we're the one who have squandered it in the years since he left; not by underperforming on the pitch but by forgetting all about the sporting and aesthetic principles that even on a bad day would distinguish us.
I don't know if other people really give a shit about stuff like this. They're allowed to not give a shit of course, it's not like they're obliged to just to support a football club, but for me it was always a large part of it, and it's just fucking sad to see Arteta's football philosophy on display every week when you know how we used to play.
Isn't this part of Arteta's talk about bringing back the club culture?
Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are cowardly coaches
You will know them by their match day line ups
there's a feature length doco about wenger coming out next year called 'invincible', which is a joint english/French production (no bein involvement thankfully. his ties with them have always irked me). his autobiography was rather vanilla. he still defended things like finishing second in 15/16 behind Leicester, which was disappointing. I wonder if he'll ever really let ever let fly about that final stretch at arsenal, or if it's too painful a period for him to sift through
I have no problem with a manager that plays defensive football, as long as it is delivering results. That's the part Arteta is failing.
jones wrote:Anzac wrote:Isn't this part of Arteta's talk about bringing back the club culture?
Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are cowardly coaches
You will know them by their match day line ups
So a midfield V rather than a deep double pivot then ;D
Gazza M wrote:there's a feature length doco about wenger coming out next year called 'invincible', which is a joint english/French production (no bein involvement thankfully. his ties with them have always irked me).
Any particular reason or just because they're a daughter of Al Jazeera?
Klaus wrote:I wonder if I'll ever care about football as deeply again as I did during that Wenger era.
I think Arsene was fundamentally correct when he said that love for a club comes from recognising a piece of yourself in it and its values. We stood for something that felt important both on and off the pitch. The issue has never been that Wenger eventually left Arsenal. The issue is that every passing year makes it more and more apparent that all the values I cared about seems to have left with him.
People used to talk about how he'd squander his legacy by overstaying his welcome, but I think we're the one who have squandered it in the years since he left; not by underperforming on the pitch but by forgetting all about the sporting and aesthetic principles that even on a bad day would distinguish us.
I don't know if other people really give a shit about stuff like this. They're allowed to not give a shit of course, it's not like they're obliged to just to support a football club, but for me it was always a large part of it, and it's just fucking sad to see Arteta's football philosophy on display every week when you know how we used to play.
I'm genuinely curious as to how we can clearly define these when the 2 parts of his tenure are so different on the pitch. About the only thing consistent with both was the 1-2 touch short passing, and the idea of passing the ball to someone in a better position even when inside the opposition area.
Alternatively as Jones alluded to, off the pitch is the ideology of wanting to play positive, attractive, attacking football that entertained/thrilled. We have AW's quote after that FA Cup Final v MU where he said he'd rather not win another game than play defensive/negative football. However there is another quote from another manager that 'entertaining football without success is pointless/aimless, and winning football without flavour/style is soulless', or words to that effect.
For mind AW was more of the former, and to me it appeared to him 'success' was the outcome of the style of football and philosophy, rather than being the objective of that same style and philosophy.
Just going back to the 2 styles during his tenure, I wonder if he actually preferred the aesthetics of the 2nd era over the success of the first, other than the achievement of The Invincible season.
jones wrote:Gazza M wrote:there's a feature length doco about wenger coming out next year called 'invincible', which is a joint english/French production (no bein involvement thankfully. his ties with them have always irked me).
Any particular reason or just because they're a daughter of Al Jazeera?
his closeness with Nasser al-khalaifi and being on his payroll as a high profile contributor for BEIN conflicts with my view of him as a man of integrity willing to rage against the dying of the light. as does his role doing wet work for fifa. I pictured him either taking another coaching role or riding off into the sunset like ferguson
Khelaifi isn't exactly a man you'd associate with high integrity or morals but he's no emir either, he's a former tennis player who fluked his way into the ruling family's good graces and now runs their football business for them. I understand if association with someone like that is enough to be turned off someone one holds in high regard but then Wenger should've long lost all credit for being a lot closer with the Kroenkes before who are certified trash
Yeah, I never got the impression that Wenger was above having dealings with these sorts of people. Always found it odd how he was going on about FFP here but seemed excited and involved with the PSG project.
jones wrote:Khelaifi isn't exactly a man you'd associate with high integrity or morals but he's no emir either, he's a former tennis player who fluked his way into the ruling family's good graces and now runs their football business for them. I understand if association with someone like that is enough to be turned off someone one holds in high regard but then Wenger should've long lost all credit for being a lot closer with the Kroenkes before who are certified trash
the kroenke relationship wasn't really his choice though. they took over the club he was a long term employee of. these other relationships were entirely his choice.
goon wrote:Yeah, I never got the impression that Wenger was above having dealings with these sorts of people. Always found it odd how he was going on about FFP here but seemed excited and involved with the PSG project.
not odd because by that time wenger didn't care about winning at that level and the PSG project wasn't a threat to arsenal. but domestically clubs like city and chelsea made it harder to get top 4.
looks like it's coming out earlier than I thought
I was more surprised to see Vieira being involved than I was ferguson. thought their relationship was a bit frosty, but that was mainly based on inferring things from afar
Meatwad wrote:goon wrote:Yeah, I never got the impression that Wenger was above having dealings with these sorts of people. Always found it odd how he was going on about FFP here but seemed excited and involved with the PSG project.
not odd because by that time wenger didn't care about winning at that level and the PSG project wasn't a threat to arsenal. but domestically clubs like city and chelsea made it harder to get top 4.
From a self interest point of view sure, it makes perfect sense. But whenever he talked about FFP and self sustainability he seemed passionate about it and I used to view him as a man of principle, but when it came to PSG it was as if he'd turn a blind eye to all that.
In the end I think he's just someone who loves football. FFP would make the PL more balanced and attainable, but money was the only thing that could ever turn PSG into a power house and help French football become relevant.
Klaus wrote:I think Arsene was fundamentally correct when he said that love for a club comes from recognising a piece of yourself in it and its values. We stood for something that felt important both on and off the pitch. The issue has never been that Wenger eventually left Arsenal. The issue is that every passing year makes it more and more apparent that all the values I cared about seems to have left with him.
The problem with the "sustainable model"—it was just Wenger. As we knew. And it didn't work. Wenger failed to grasp his best opportunities for more than a decade and only left us or rather was pushed out when it was too late to manage any succession smoothly. I'll always love the man, but he was the architect of our present decline. The aura of good taste and class he developed enabled years of inadequate investment and a foolish structure in which one man was accountable for almost everything.
And that's why the problem isn't entirely Arteta now, and why we're still talking about Wenger, bless him.
Would have love the Amazon documentary during Wenger's reign. Would love to see all his dressing room talks.
Off topic but in the same match what happened to Nasri?
Fucking hell how long has it been since he retired?
Like four months
I think he last kicked a ball when Anderlecht released him in 2020 though, and when he, perhaps not surprisingly, couldn't find a new club again he called it quits this year.
All the players in their 40s and 50s last night were in better shape than him.
I just can’t understand how a professional athlete with no physical impairment or disease allows themselves to lose shape to this extent. Just goes to show his mindset I guess.
Makes perfect sense to me. He's no longer a professional athlete, has had a lifelong struggle with fitness and attitude, is probably a heavy drug user or even addict, and is no doubt emotionally affected by being so widely despised and by his failures as a player. Gascoigne type really.
Jesus Christ Burns why would you think he's a drug addict?
Hey, I said probably. The proof is in the puddin'
goon wrote:Yeah, I never got the impression that Wenger was above having dealings with these sorts of people. Always found it odd how he was going on about FFP here but seemed excited and involved with the PSG project.
IIRC he said he was interested in the DoF role at PSG because of their location, and support base for both supporters and players in a single team city scenario. He was excited by the potential of the opportunity for in house development.
Burnwinter wrote:Hey, I said probably. The proof is in the puddin'
Yeah but there is no puddin, Nasri ate it.
Lost all respect for Wenger when he started pushing FIFA's absurd World Cup every two years plan.
jones wrote:Jesus Christ Burns
why would you think he's a drug addict?
i think a proper drug addict would be slimmer.
https://www.football365.com/news/arteta-wenger-return-would-be-huge-boost-for-arsenal
https://www.football365.com/news/wenger-admits-regret-staying-loyal-to-arsenal
Speaking in his new documentary film, ‘Arsene Wenger: Invincible’, the 72-year-old explained how he feels something may have been “broken” after guiding Arsenal to an unbeaten league season in 2003/04.
“I regret. I should have gone somewhere else. I identified myself completely with the club and that was the mistake I made. Now there is no special reason for me to go there. All the rest is purely emotional and that is less important.”
IMO he still has unresolved issues with the club and they way his tenure was ended, which is possibly a big factor in why he now regrets staying as long as he did. That said he's NOT a victim as he had over a decade to change things after DD departed.