Because peak Wenger is better than peak Klopp. Peak Wenger matched up with the best of all time with half the resources.

Rohit wrote:

Because peak Wenger is better than peak Klopp. Peak Wenger matched up with the best of all time with half the resources.

Aye wenger was ahead of furgusan in head to head games until the stadium rebuild. That's some achievement considering the cult status of Fergus. 

They were tied head to head going into the CL semi final 2nd leg in 2009. Wenger lost the first two to Fergusson, one of them was a League Cup game, then went ahead and didn't fall behind till 2009. I hope my memory isn't evading me here but this is what I remember.

a month later
5 months later

Probably congratulating him on his new kid.

a month later
18 days later

That headline gave me a good shock

I wonder if I'll ever care about football as deeply again as I did during that Wenger era.

I think Arsene was fundamentally correct when he said that love for a club comes from recognising a piece of yourself in it and its values. We stood for something that felt important both on and off the pitch. The issue has never been that Wenger eventually left Arsenal. The issue is that every passing year makes it more and more apparent that all the values I cared about seems to have left with him.

People used to talk about how he'd squander his legacy by overstaying his welcome, but I think we're the one who have squandered it in the years since he left; not by underperforming on the pitch but by forgetting all about the sporting and aesthetic principles that even on a bad day would distinguish us.

I don't know if other people really give a shit about stuff like this. They're allowed to not give a shit of course, it's not like they're obliged to just to support a football club, but for me it was always a large part of it, and it's just fucking sad to see Arteta's football philosophy on display every week when you know how we used to play.

Klaus wrote:

I wonder if I'll ever care about football as deeply again as I did during that Wenger era.

I think Arsene was fundamentally correct when he said that love for a club comes from recognising a piece of yourself in it and its values. We stood for something that felt important both on and off the pitch. The issue has never been that Wenger eventually left Arsenal. The issue is that every passing year makes it more and more apparent that all the values I cared about seems to have left with him.

People used to talk about how he'd squander his legacy by overstaying his welcome, but I think we're the one who have squandered it in the years since he left; not by underperforming on the pitch but by forgetting all about the sporting and aesthetic principles that even on a bad day would distinguish us.

I don't know if other people really give a shit about stuff like this. They're allowed to not give a shit of course, it's not like they're obliged to just to support a football club, but for me it was always a large part of it, and it's just fucking sad to see Arteta's football philosophy on display every week when you know how we used to play.

Isn't this part of Arteta's talk about bringing back the club culture?

Anzac wrote:
Klaus wrote:

I wonder if I'll ever care about football as deeply again as I did during that Wenger era.

I think Arsene was fundamentally correct when he said that love for a club comes from recognising a piece of yourself in it and its values. We stood for something that felt important both on and off the pitch. The issue has never been that Wenger eventually left Arsenal. The issue is that every passing year makes it more and more apparent that all the values I cared about seems to have left with him.

People used to talk about how he'd squander his legacy by overstaying his welcome, but I think we're the one who have squandered it in the years since he left; not by underperforming on the pitch but by forgetting all about the sporting and aesthetic principles that even on a bad day would distinguish us.

I don't know if other people really give a shit about stuff like this. They're allowed to not give a shit of course, it's not like they're obliged to just to support a football club, but for me it was always a large part of it, and it's just fucking sad to see Arteta's football philosophy on display every week when you know how we used to play.

Isn't this part of Arteta's talk about bringing back the club culture?

Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are cowardly coaches

You will know them by their match day line ups

there's a feature length doco about wenger coming out next year called 'invincible', which is a joint english/French production (no bein involvement thankfully. his ties with them have always irked me). his autobiography was rather vanilla. he still defended things like finishing second in 15/16 behind Leicester, which was disappointing. I wonder if he'll ever really let ever let fly about that final stretch at arsenal, or if it's too painful a period for him to sift through

I have no problem with a manager that plays defensive football, as long as it is delivering results. That's the part Arteta is failing.

jones wrote:
Anzac wrote:

Isn't this part of Arteta's talk about bringing back the club culture?

Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are cowardly coaches

You will know them by their match day line ups

😆 

So a midfield V rather than a deep double pivot then  ;D

Gazza M wrote:

there's a feature length doco about wenger coming out next year called 'invincible', which is a joint english/French production (no bein involvement thankfully. his ties with them have always irked me).

Any particular reason or just because they're a daughter of Al Jazeera?

Klaus wrote:

I wonder if I'll ever care about football as deeply again as I did during that Wenger era.

I think Arsene was fundamentally correct when he said that love for a club comes from recognising a piece of yourself in it and its values. We stood for something that felt important both on and off the pitch. The issue has never been that Wenger eventually left Arsenal. The issue is that every passing year makes it more and more apparent that all the values I cared about seems to have left with him.

People used to talk about how he'd squander his legacy by overstaying his welcome, but I think we're the one who have squandered it in the years since he left; not by underperforming on the pitch but by forgetting all about the sporting and aesthetic principles that even on a bad day would distinguish us.

I don't know if other people really give a shit about stuff like this. They're allowed to not give a shit of course, it's not like they're obliged to just to support a football club, but for me it was always a large part of it, and it's just fucking sad to see Arteta's football philosophy on display every week when you know how we used to play.

I'm genuinely curious as to how we can clearly define these when the 2 parts of his tenure are so different on the pitch.  About the only thing consistent with both was the 1-2 touch short passing, and the idea of passing the ball to someone in a better position even when inside the opposition area.  

Alternatively as Jones alluded to, off the pitch is the ideology of wanting to play positive, attractive, attacking football that entertained/thrilled.  We have AW's quote after that FA Cup Final v MU where he said he'd rather not win another game than play defensive/negative football.  However there is another quote from another manager that 'entertaining football without success is pointless/aimless, and winning football without flavour/style is soulless', or words to that effect.
For mind AW was more of the former, and to me it appeared to him 'success' was the outcome of the style of football and philosophy, rather than being the objective of that same style and philosophy.

Just going back to the 2 styles during his tenure, I wonder if he actually preferred the aesthetics of the 2nd era over the success of the first, other than the achievement of The Invincible season.

jones wrote:
Gazza M wrote:

there's a feature length doco about wenger coming out next year called 'invincible', which is a joint english/French production (no bein involvement thankfully. his ties with them have always irked me).

Any particular reason or just because they're a daughter of Al Jazeera?

his closeness with Nasser al-khalaifi and being on his payroll as a high profile contributor for BEIN conflicts with my view of him as a man of integrity willing to rage against the dying of the light. as does his role doing wet work for fifa. I pictured him either taking another coaching role or riding off into the sunset like ferguson

Khelaifi isn't exactly a man you'd associate with high integrity or morals but he's no emir either, he's a former tennis player who fluked his way into the ruling family's good graces and now runs their football business for them. I understand if association with someone like that is enough to be turned off someone one holds in high regard but then Wenger should've long lost all credit for being a lot closer with the Kroenkes before who are certified trash