Unai Emery - Initial thoughts: Page 37 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Unai Emery - Initial thoughts

jones

y va marquer wrote:
No. I wasn't interested in Europa League, still not that interested in it.

I view Klopp as the better manager because I rate winning the Bundesliga with Dortmund higherthan winning Ligue 1 with PSG.

I also rate Klopp's history of longevity as manager with the club's he's been with.

That same season Emery finished with 76 points in La Liga while Klopp got 60 finishing behind Southampton and West Ham

Klopps last league win was in 2012. A good title for him certainly but aided by circumstances such as their only domestic competition bottling it at key points. He also lead that same team to the relegation zone couple years later

Point being not that Klopp isn't or is better but that the circumstances for both of their careers, highs and lows are so vastly different that it's virtually impossible to say something like that.

Ray

That's why I mentioned the lack of long term planning under Gazidis/Wenger. We can identify young players who in the future could command big transfer fees, if anyone is using Liverpool as a template it's obviously a long term outlook.

awooga83

Well 2 of their key players in the rejuvenation of their attacking team mane and Salah pre date the coutinho sale. Their big defensive signings though sure they've used those funds to rebalance and address weaknesses.

But still their strategy is not impossible for arsenal to implement as the early signings weren't for crazy money and targeting decent players currently playing for 'lower tier'clubs has bourne decent results for them as many of those teams have much better scouting systems so let them do the work and try to poach the better players of the bunch.

jones

Ray wrote:
Liverpool haven't actually invested that heavily, most of their funds came from the Coutinho sale. They just have bought well and managed their sales well. They have built this title run and solid defence on the back of the Coutinho sale, Arsenal didn't have the same long term planning and team building ideas in place under Gazidis and Wenger, it remains to be seen what Raul, Sven and Emery can do.

Some of that is true but Liverpool have invested heavily since long before Coutinhos sale. They simply are not afraid to sell at a loss if someone doesn't work out, see Benteke Balotelli Lallana Markovic Carroll Downing etc, all bought for 20m or more and sold for a lot less.

goon

Their net spend over the last 5 seasons is lower than both ours and even Everton’s. We’re not far off Chelsea either.

In hindsight we should have sold Sanchez and Aaron. We know for near fact that there was £110m on the table and we got virtually nothing. We’ve also lost out on 60m plus with the lack of CL football. Then there’s others like Elneny, Ozil and Welbeck who’ve been retained at the cost of probably another 80m odd.

That’s big money, decisions have fucked us over the last 2 years in particular.

jones

Their net spend is lower because of their big sales. We stopped almost entirely selling players unless they were way out of favour and out of playing time. Not sure what happened between the days where we got 25m for a wantaway Nasri with a year on his contract and when we started gifting players like Podolski instead of recuperating even a little of our outlay. Wenger started looking at everyone he liked like they were his sons and everyone else was discarded

Also agree about Alexis and Ramsey. Not a given that Wenger and Gazidis would've invested that money or even if they did that they wouldn't have brought in duds. We fucked up massively on almost every front in the last few years and seemingly everyone knows it yet we seem to expect and demand immediate results

Here's hoping Mislintat and Emery can bring in a couple more Kagawas and Dembeles

y va marquer

jones wrote:
y va marquer wrote:
No. I wasn't interested in Europa League, still not that interested in it.

I view Klopp as the better manager because I rate winning the Bundesliga with Dortmund higherthan winning Ligue 1 with PSG.

I also rate Klopp's history of longevity as manager with the club's he's been with.

That same season Emery finished with 76 points in La Liga while Klopp got 60 finishing behind Southampton and West Ham

Klopps last league win was in 2012. A good title for him certainly but aided by circumstances such as their only domestic competition bottling it at key points. He also lead that same team to the relegation zone couple years later

Point being not that Klopp isn't or is better but that the circumstances for both of their careers, highs and lows are so vastly different that it's virtually impossible to say something like that.

It's not impossible to say "something like that".
People make these claims and voice these opinions all the time.
That it's open to debate and subjective is fair enough.
Given a choice of the two to manage Arsenal in current circumstances I'd still go for Klopp.
That ship has sailed so I'm happy to give Emery up to three years to see if he can manage us out of this hole.

Claudius

goon wrote:
Their net spend over the last 5 seasons is lower than both ours and even Everton’s. We’re not far off Chelsea either.

In hindsight we should have sold Sanchez and Aaron. We know for near fact that there was £110m on the table and we got virtually nothing. We’ve also lost out on 60m plus with the lack of CL football. Then there’s others like Elneny, Ozil and Welbeck who’ve been retained at the cost of probably another 80m odd.

That’s big money, decisions have fucked us over the last 2 years in particular.

Do not look at net spend. You’re looking at the wrong thing. What matters is what the manager can field.
Look at present squad values. A table on the Daily Star suggests the current values of squads is:

City - £870m
United - £700m
Liverpool - £630m
Chelsea - £600m
Arsenal -£380m
Spurs - £350m

Credit to Spurs really. We should feel comfortable putting another £150-250m in this squad.
I agree that we messed up sales which impacts cash abailanle, but what wins is the squad at manager’s disposal.

goon

I’m not talking about the quality of the squad though, the point I’m making is that Liverpool haven’t had tons of outside investment, they’ve generated a lot through player sales and have, for the most part, reinvested as well as you could realistically expect. People reference them as an example of why Kroenke needs to invest. He doesn’t, it’s evidence that he needs people in there to make better decisions on the resources we have.

Also a current value table from the Daily Star? Probably has been drawn up by a 17yr old intern with nothing better to do.

Claudius

That’s why I mentioned source. Best I could do without an extensive search. The numbers feel right, maybe slightly under for City and United.

As for internal sources, speaks to buying strategy - one of my biggest complaints about wenger. We bought very badly. Pool bought a lot of players in the Torreira category. We can already sell this guy for a handsome profit. Wenger, on the other hand bought kids and pensioners; while letting good players’s contracts lapse. Chaos!!!

goon

And as Jones mentioned, while Liverpool have quickly discarded they’re bad buys, we’ve persisted with ours. The likes of Welbeck, Mustafi, Xhaka, Chambers, Elneny etc, maybe you could make a case for a couple of those guys as squaddies or prospects but there’s no way they should all still be here.

Claudius

Every big club buys bullshit. But they sell, as you say. Look to City or Barcelona for examples of churn machines.

Bold Tone

Claudius wrote:
...

As for internal sources, speaks to buying strategy - one of my biggest complaints about wenger. We bought very badly. Pool bought a lot of players in the Torreira category. We can already sell this guy for a handsome profit. Wenger, on the other hand bought kids and pensioners; while letting good players’s contracts lapse. Chaos!!!

I may be mistaken but isn't that more an argument for net spend than present squad values.
Present squad value, for example, means nothing when players' contract expire as you mention because there's no one interested in paying for someone they can get for free.

Claudius

Present squad value is what you have on hand to mount your title challenge. When City has a squad that is with 2-3x yours, all things being equal you will likely struggle against them

Anzac

Ray wrote:
Liverpool haven't actually invested that heavily, most of their funds came from the Coutinho sale. They just have bought well and managed their sales well. They have built this title run and solid defence on the back of the Coutinho sale, Arsenal didn't have the same long term planning and team building ideas in place under Gazidis and Wenger, it remains to be seen what Raul, Sven and Emery can do.

And Suarez before him.

Anzac

jones wrote:
Their net spend is lower because of their big sales. We stopped almost entirely selling players unless they were way out of favour and out of playing time. Not sure what happened between the days where we got 25m for a wantaway Nasri with a year on his contract and when we started gifting players like Podolski instead of recuperating even a little of our outlay. Wenger started looking at everyone he liked like they were his sons and everyone else was discarded

Also agree about Alexis and Ramsey. Not a given that Wenger and Gazidis would've invested that money or even if they did that they wouldn't have brought in duds. We fucked up massively on almost every front in the last few years and seemingly everyone knows it yet we seem to expect and demand immediate results

Here's hoping Mislintat and Emery can bring in a couple more Kagawas and Dembeles

I think it was in the Q&A after Martial went to MU AW was asked why he had walked away from negotiations mid way into the window only to see MU sign the player in the last week. AW said 2 things that were key to his transfer strategy - firstly he said that Monaco had told him that the player was not for sale; and secondly he said that it was his policy NOT to pursue any player unless their club had made them available for sale.

Claudius

And this is why I’m so insistent that our money goes into high quality young players - Torreiras. If we can get our hands on excellent players under 26 affordably, we should take them. We cannot afford to fill out Arsene’s retirement home

Anzac

Claudius wrote:
Present squad value is what you have on hand to mount your title challenge. When City has a squad that is with 2-3x yours, all things being equal you will likely struggle against them

Perhaps more relevant to current circumstances, when we played at OT the MU bench was valued higher than our starting XI.

Anzac

Claudius wrote:
That’s why I mentioned source. Best I could do without an extensive search. The numbers feel right, maybe slightly under for City and United.

As for internal sources, speaks to buying strategy - one of my biggest complaints about wenger. We bought very badly. Pool bought a lot of players in the Torreira category. We can already sell this guy for a handsome profit. Wenger, on the other hand bought kids and pensioners; while letting good players’s contracts lapse. Chaos!!!

IMO if we do not support Emery, Mislintat & Sanllehi with sufficient transfer funds to expedite the rebuild, then it will likely take 3 seasons to effectively rebuild the squad, by which time we will need to replace the current better players who will be aged 30+.

Claudius

3 seasons is way too long in this unforgiving environment of tabloids and twitter. We need to get 4 significant players in the next 2 windows. And some kids need to grow a set quickly

« Previous Page Next Page »