banduan wrote: I thought we did enough to craft multiple good opportunities in the Manc match. We just plain wasted them.
I thought we did enough to craft multiple good opportunities in the Manc match. We just plain wasted them.
https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1376022/Live/England-Premier-League-2019-2020-Manchester-United-Arsenal
only 7 key passes and PEA created 2 of them.
GooneriC wrote: Anzac wrote: I want Emery Out before we send Ozil out on loan or whatever. I accept that Ozil does not fit Emery's style or requirements, however the dross that we are given IMO is not working regardless of Ozils involvement or not. He is our best creative midfielder and passer, and I want him available if we decide to replace Emery. But that's the problem. Emery has no specific style , and the players can't seem to understand how he wants to play. If he had a specific system and Ozil didn't fit into that then we could all be on board with it.
Anzac wrote: I want Emery Out before we send Ozil out on loan or whatever. I accept that Ozil does not fit Emery's style or requirements, however the dross that we are given IMO is not working regardless of Ozils involvement or not. He is our best creative midfielder and passer, and I want him available if we decide to replace Emery.
I want Emery Out before we send Ozil out on loan or whatever.
I accept that Ozil does not fit Emery's style or requirements, however the dross that we are given IMO is not working regardless of Ozils involvement or not. He is our best creative midfielder and passer, and I want him available if we decide to replace Emery.
But that's the problem. Emery has no specific style , and the players can't seem to understand how he wants to play. If he had a specific system and Ozil didn't fit into that then we could all be on board with it.
I was more than happy with the sort of play we saw last season when Iwobi scored v CFC in the 2nd game of the season. However it now appears that Emery's style is based upon what he thinks is required to negate the opposition, and there is no more thought than to the next game/opponent.
That reeks of a Cup game lower league side vs big guns mentality and tactics which suggest we are too focused on what the other team can do to hurt us. His thinking is like we are playing a flying Man City every week when we should he wiping the floor with the likes of Spurs Watford Villa and United.
GooneriC wrote: That reeks of a Cup game lower league side vs big guns mentality and tactics which suggest we are too focused on what the other team can do to hurt us. His thinking is like we are playing a flying Man City every week when we should he wiping the floor with the likes of Spurs Watford Villa and United.
Agreed - IMO it is the reason for his conservatism and caution, and I also think that like Moyes he has become hard wired to that sort of approach and is unable to change after stepping up to the other side of the coin.
Anzac wrote: banduan wrote: I thought we did enough to craft multiple good opportunities in the Manc match. We just plain wasted them. https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1376022/Live/England-Premier-League-2019-2020-Manchester-United-Arsenal only 7 key passes and PEA created 2 of them.
Isn't a key pass just a pass that leads to a shot? So if you aren't getting shots you aren't getting key passes?
Watch the game again. We basically didn’t have a shot on goal until about the 30th minute or something like that.
The game got stretched and errors led to a few more chances in the second half, but an attacking display for the ages it was not.
Qwiss! wrote: Anzac wrote: https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1376022/Live/England-Premier-League-2019-2020-Manchester-United-Arsenal only 7 key passes and PEA created 2 of them. Isn't a key pass just a pass that leads to a shot? So if you aren't getting shots you aren't getting key passes?
Anzac wrote: https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1376022/Live/England-Premier-League-2019-2020-Manchester-United-Arsenal only 7 key passes and PEA created 2 of them.
Dunno tbh - thought it was more about being put through into a scoring position.
Anzac wrote: Qwiss! wrote: Isn't a key pass just a pass that leads to a shot? So if you aren't getting shots you aren't getting key passes? Dunno tbh - thought it was more about being put through into a scoring position.
Qwiss! wrote: Isn't a key pass just a pass that leads to a shot? So if you aren't getting shots you aren't getting key passes?
AFAIK the way its measured is any pass that leads to a shot. Same as chances created. So you could play a defence splitting pass to a player on the penalty spot but if he doesn't shoot it wont count where as if you make the pass before Xhaka blasts one into row Z from 4 yards it does count.
Qwiss! wrote: Anzac wrote: Dunno tbh - thought it was more about being put through into a scoring position. AFAIK the way its measured is any pass that leads to a shot. Same as chances created. So you could play a defence splitting pass to a player on the penalty spot but if he doesn't shoot it wont count where as if you make the pass before Xhaka blasts one into row Z from 4 yards it does count.
Anzac wrote: Dunno tbh - thought it was more about being put through into a scoring position.
Key passes = passes leading to a shot on target. Chances created = key passes + assists.
So it won't count when Xhaka blasts it into row Z, but it will count when Pepe unconvincingly gives the ball straight to the goalkeeper.
Quincy Abeyie wrote: Qwiss! wrote: AFAIK the way its measured is any pass that leads to a shot. Same as chances created. So you could play a defence splitting pass to a player on the penalty spot but if he doesn't shoot it wont count where as if you make the pass before Xhaka blasts one into row Z from 4 yards it does count. Key passes = passes leading to a shot on target. Chances created = key passes + assists. So it won't count when Xhaka blasts it into row Z, but it will count when Pepe unconvincingly gives the ball straight to the goalkeeper.
Qwiss! wrote: AFAIK the way its measured is any pass that leads to a shot. Same as chances created. So you could play a defence splitting pass to a player on the penalty spot but if he doesn't shoot it wont count where as if you make the pass before Xhaka blasts one into row Z from 4 yards it does count.
Thanx for the clarification.
So that means that our CF is not only scored v MU, but was also setting up more(??) opportunities than anyone else in the team as further indication as to how bad the midfield set up was.
As explained key passes only indicates the pass before a player takes a shot. While we do take too few shots, the stat does get misleadingly bloated in teams that are trigger happy but wasteful.
Our xG from the match was 1.76, while we didn't quite create enough to absolutely nail the win, being more clinical would've gotten us there. Torreira and Pepe misses come to mind, they should've done so much better.
Opta wrote: Key Pass The final pass or pass-cum-shot leading to the recipient of the ball having an attempt at goal without scoring. Chances Created Assists plus Key passes.
Key Pass The final pass or pass-cum-shot leading to the recipient of the ball having an attempt at goal without scoring.
Chances Created Assists plus Key passes.
https://www.optasports.com/news/opta-s-event-definitions/
I don't think "an attempt at goal" means it has to be on target.
I checked the stats for the United game, we had 7 key passes but just 5 shots on target.
Oh, then I misunderstood.
banduan wrote: Anzac wrote: https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1376022/Live/England-Premier-League-2019-2020-Manchester-United-Arsenal only 7 key passes and PEA created 2 of them. As explained key passes only indicates the pass before a player takes a shot. While we do take too few shots, the stat does get misleadingly bloated in teams that are trigger happy but wasteful. Our xG from the match was 1.76, while we didn't quite create enough to absolutely nail the win, being more clinical would've gotten us there. Torreira and Pepe misses come to mind, they should've done so much better.
So we don't shoot enough and we're over reliant upon PEA to score, yet v MU he was also the player laying on the passes for others = we're not doing it right.
banduan wrote: Anzac wrote: https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1376022/Live/England-Premier-League-2019-2020-Manchester-United-Arsenal only 7 key passes and PEA created 2 of them. As explained key passes only indicates the pass before a player takes a shot. While we do take too few shots, the stat does get misleadingly bloated in teams that are trigger happy but wasteful.
Yeah. Mascherano used to have a bunch of key passes in every game for Liverpool without even crossing the halfway line. Played it short to Gerrard and then the nutter advanced a bit and went for glory from 60 yards. Key passes help to paint an accurate picture over time but it’s a blunt stat.
I've seen metrics for a players key passes vs xg and vs goals. The clubs have that sort of statistical info but its not as readily available to us plebs. Makes understanding the key pass and chance creation stats too open to interpretation.
So what is on going with this guy? Not even on the bench today and not injured. Off in Jan?
When quizzed on the thinking behind his selection decisions, Emery hinted that he felt the players who were picked deserved their spot over Ozil. “I am thinking every time to decide with the best players for each match and the best players in the squad to play and help us,” Emery said to BT Sport after the game. “When I decided he isn't in the squad, it is because I think another player deserves it more.
need to move him on asap, it's just not worth persisting
He loves dragging him. It’s awful to see for all involved. Is Ozil just openly defiant and refusing to do his suicides and push-ups? It’s weird
