The Ozil Money Pit: Page 59 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

The Ozil Money Pit

Mirth

jones wrote:
Özil is turning 31 in two weeks and has now shown massive motivational issues under two managers for more than two years. People are enamored with this idea that the 2016 or 2012 version will come back but he won't, there's nothing to suggest it.

Funnily enough at the same time like 80% have written off the likes of Torreira and Ceballos two 22 year olds who have shown great promise and spells of very good form in the last twelve months. Boggles the mind

I'm hardly enamored with Ozil or seeing him through 2016 tinted glasses if I'm suggesting that he could be a useful option off the bench. I'm not writing anyone else off either but Torreria and Ceballos aren't pulling up trees themselves at the moment, particularly the former who is asked to be further forward and has never played in that role before.

Mirth

Qwiss! wrote:
I don't want a number 10 away to United. I want a midfield 3 who all pull their weight. The problem yesterday was that Torreira went missing. The problem up front is that Pepe is a passenger at the moment, I don't think we can afford another passenger in Ozil and I know which one of the 2 I'd rather stick.

Our midfield hasn't been pulling it weight all season - neither in defence or in attack, yesterday was a continuation of a trend not an exception.

Qwiss

Adding Ozil to the mix wont help, just as it didn't against Watford. We gain no added control when we play him.

goon

Qwiss! wrote:
I don't want a number 10 away to United. I want a midfield 3 who all pull their weight. The problem yesterday was that Torreira went missing. The problem up front is that Pepe is a passenger at the moment, I don't think we can afford another passenger in Ozil and I know which one of the 2 I'd rather stick.

United had a midfield of Pogba and McTominay, with Lingard in the 10 role. If there was ever a game for him to play in, it was yesterday. If you wanted someone more combative, fine, play Ceballos or even Willock further forward. A flat 3 puts enormous pressure on Saka and Pepe to do a lot on their own.

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert

Captain wrote:
He plays between the lines and is still the best player in the squad at doing so. The reason we struggle so much going forward is because we have Lacazette dropping in there who can't pass and we now have Auba who is even worse at that. Pepe is on the right trying to dribble and looking lost in all but the simplest build up play, Saka can beat a man, but again his combination play is poor. The result of this is that not a single midfielder is encouraged or permitted to run beyond the strikers or actually receive a ball in that half space because the ball comes back 9/10 times. Emery knows this which is why he plays a flat midfield and the result is the dour football we witness.

Ozil played well against Forest not because they were poor, and they were poor, but because he had Reiss-Nelson, Willock and to a lesser extent Smith-Rowe to play with. He's also the smartest player we have on the counter attack, which time and time again breaks down because of what I said in the first paragraph. Ozil is not the answer, but out of the resources at hand, he is certainly part of it.

Absolutely spot on. With the total dearth of creativity and "link-up" in Emery's system we should not be turning our noses up at Mesut Ozil - and he's not even that good anymore.

Anzac

Qwiss! wrote:
Adding Ozil to the mix wont help, just as it didn't against Watford. We gain no added control when we play him.

Perhaps not under Emery, but maybe under someone else.

Clrnc

Ozil on the bench is waste of bench space anyway. How many times even when he was in good form that he came off the bench and completely changed the game with a good shift put in?

We played Ceballos in advanced roles, changed shape for him but our game play become worse and United dominated us. Blaming Torreira is missing the mark too, he is not a number 10 and we played him almost like a 2nd striker yesterday.

flobaba

Clrnc wrote:
Ozil on the bench is waste of bench space anyway. How many times even when he was in good form that he came off the bench and completely changed the game with a good shift put in?

Zero times. That’s how many

Mirth

flobaba wrote:
Clrnc wrote:
Ozil on the bench is waste of bench space anyway. How many times even when he was in good form that he came off the bench and completely changed the game with a good shift put in?

Zero times. That’s how many

How many times has he come off the bench though?

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/mesut-ozil/leistungsdaten/spieler/35664/plus/0?saison=2018

Not many.

Klaus

The treatment of Özil is symbolic of Emery's management to me. You get to decide who plays and where they play when you're the manager, it's one of the perks of the job. But you're also going to be judged accordingly. Coming in and immediately alienating guys like Ramsey and Özil was a big statement, and it needed to be backed up by showing everyone that we are a better team on the pitch without them. That has never been the case as far as I'm concerned, and it's getting a bit ridiculous now. United had a guy who looks like Gunnersaurus in midfield yesterday and we're here debating whether Mesut bloody Özil could have found some space.

goon

That's a great point.

Also if it's just about talent and his worth to the side then fair enough, but it seems pretty clear that it goes beyond that, Emery simply doesn't like him or something about him or wants to make a point.

Mirth

Klaus wrote:
The treatment of Özil is symbolic of Emery's management to me. You get to decide who plays and where they play when you're the manager, it's one of the perks of the job. But you're also going to be judged accordingly. Coming in and immediately alienating guys like Ramsey and Özil was a big statement, and it needed to be backed up by showing everyone that we are a better team on the pitch without them. That has never been the case as far as I'm concerned, and it's getting a bit ridiculous now. United had a guy who looks like Gunnersaurus in midfield yesterday and we're here debating whether Mesut bloody Özil could have found some space.

This isn't with the benefit of hindsight because I said it at the time that the whole thing was managed very poorly by the club as a whole. Both players had flaws and I understood that we had to pick one, instead we went with neither and as a result our midfield is a chaotic mess that can't defend or attack and barely exists as a concept most of the game.

And I agree that Ozil and Ramsey probably did need to be moved on for various reasons but at no point have we looked a better team for it.

flobaba

I’d rather we move on from both at this stage. This discussion has gotten redundant

Qwiss

goon wrote:
Qwiss! wrote:
I don't want a number 10 away to United. I want a midfield 3 who all pull their weight. The problem yesterday was that Torreira went missing. The problem up front is that Pepe is a passenger at the moment, I don't think we can afford another passenger in Ozil and I know which one of the 2 I'd rather stick.

United had a midfield of Pogba and McTominay, with Lingard in the 10 role. If there was ever a game for him to play in, it was yesterday. If you wanted someone more combative, fine, play Ceballos or even Willock further forward. A flat 3 puts enormous pressure on Saka and Pepe to do a lot on their own.

It doesn't matter who they played, when has he ever been good away from home against United or any other team that are considered rivals? I'd love for us to have played Willock and I can accept Ceballos may be bedding in but we can't afford a midfielder who does no work in defence and offers very little cutting edge in attack any more.

jones

Mirth wrote:
jones wrote:
Özil is turning 31 in two weeks and has now shown massive motivational issues under two managers for more than two years. People are enamored with this idea that the 2016 or 2012 version will come back but he won't, there's nothing to suggest it.

Funnily enough at the same time like 80% have written off the likes of Torreira and Ceballos two 22 year olds who have shown great promise and spells of very good form in the last twelve months. Boggles the mind

I'm hardly enamored with Ozil or seeing him through 2016 tinted glasses if I'm suggesting that he could be a useful option off the bench. I'm not writing anyone else off either but Torreria and Ceballos aren't pulling up trees themselves at the moment, particularly the former who is asked to be further forward and has never played in that role before.

Torreira is in poor form, Ceballos has teething problems. They're still at a point in their careers where you think their intrinsic motivation could move them out of their slump. I'd love nothing more than if Özil could do the same, talent wise he should be tearing the league to shreds but his heart isnt in the game any more. Forget about his lack of cutting edge in attack, that might possibly come back after a sustained run in the team. The much bigger issue with him is his ball retention has turned to complete shit, he used to be able to shield the ball and either find a split second away from his marker or at least win a foul, now he gets pushed aside and he complains to the ref and gets nothing.

GooneriC

Anzac wrote:
I want Emery Out before we send Ozil out on loan or whatever.

I accept that Ozil does not fit Emery's style or requirements, however the dross that we are given IMO is not working regardless of Ozils involvement or not. He is our best creative midfielder and passer, and I want him available if we decide to replace Emery.

But that's the problem. Emery has no specific style , and the players can't seem to understand how he wants to play. If he had a specific system and Ozil didn't fit into that then we could all be on board with it.

Bold Tone

Klaus wrote:
The treatment of Özil is symbolic of Emery's management to me. You get to decide who plays and where they play when you're the manager, it's one of the perks of the job. But you're also going to be judged accordingly. Coming in and immediately alienating guys like Ramsey and Özil was a big statement, and it needed to be backed up by showing everyone that we are a better team on the pitch without them. That has never been the case as far as I'm concerned, and it's getting a bit ridiculous now. United had a guy who looks like Gunnersaurus in midfield yesterday and we're here debating whether Mesut bloody Özil could have found some space.

Rohit

The above is what I thought too during the game on first viewing. It's not just with Pepe though. Our movement is shocking. The players don't get passing options quickly enough. The distances between players are all wrong. To be honest though, it wasn't like this last season. We were predictable, hence not hard to defend against, but not clueless.

MuswellHillGooner

Is that Torreira up with Saka in no position to receive the ball?
Guendouzi, what the heck?
Standing flat-footed when unmarked.
Pepe recognises that the easy pass to him more or less kills the opportunity.

banduan

I thought we did enough to craft multiple good opportunities in the Manc match. We just plain wasted them.

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