The Ozil Money Pit: Page 34 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

The Ozil Money Pit

Bold Tone

Anzac wrote:
Although the article pointed out that there is no medical evidence to support concerns based upon the type of procedure or the time he took to recover being quicker than usual.
Then there are advances in surgical techniques and treatments.

At the end if the day if our medical and high performance teams were to give him a green light then I'd be fine with it - if not then we move on.

I suspect Koulibally is going to cost more than VVD so we aren't going to sign him, Dembele, Pepe etc any time soon because there is still too much work that is needed across all areas to be able to look to spend top dollar on quality in one player as yet.

The Liverpool medical and high performance teams already failed him so, unless they are sub-standard, the problem is still there.

The fact that nobody else has taken up the risk despite his impressive stats must speak volumes as well.
Also, i put an "a" in front of those names for a particular reason.
A Sarr means a good wide player and a Koulibaly, a good CB.
As for expense a £100m Koulibaly more than doubles the cost if you waste £65m + wages + medical bills + squad place on a crock.

Klaus

Anzac wrote:
Klaus wrote:
Fekir is also a worse player.

Perhaps a case of comparing apples and oranges?

IMO Fekir is not a playmaker type & is more of a direct goal threat, whereas Ozil is perhaps the last of the artists of the pass types even more so than the likes of Silva and De Bruyne.

There's that too perhaps, but I feel Fekir is just not as good a footballer. I don't think it's a replacement that would benefit us in forming a better attack.

I think Tone is right about the injury worries too. He's a player in his mid-20s who failed a medical two years after snapping his ACL. The statistics are against him, and it's not because of how they repaired the knee. Usually it's the other knee that goes a few years after someone comes back from an ACL. Speedy probably has the correct injury statistics, but it's something horrific like a one in five chance to snap the other knee within 24 months after surgery. If Liverpool on top of that also found wear of cartilage during the MRI on the repaired knee then it's just one more thing to be wary of. Emery's style is based on pressing and hard work too which puts an added strain on weak joints.

Anzac

Klaus wrote:
Anzac wrote:
Perhaps a case of comparing apples and oranges?

IMO Fekir is not a playmaker type & is more of a direct goal threat, whereas Ozil is perhaps the last of the artists of the pass types even more so than the likes of Silva and De Bruyne.

There's that too perhaps, but I feel Fekir is just not as good a footballer. I don't think it's a replacement that would benefit us in forming a better attack.

I think Tone is right about the injury worries too. He's a player in his mid-20s who failed a medical two years after snapping his ACL. The statistics are against him, and it's not because of how they repaired the knee. Usually it's the other knee that goes a few years after someone comes back from an ACL. Speedy probably has the correct injury statistics, but it's something horrific like a one in five chance to snap the other knee within 24 months after surgery. If Liverpool on top of that also found wear of cartilage during the MRI on the repaired knee then it's just one more thing to be wary of. Emery's style is based on pressing and hard work too which puts an added strain on weak joints.

At the end of the day I think this last part has the last word on any consideration.

Claudius

Fekir is a phenomenal, explosive player. He is not an Ozil-style playmaker. Can play 7, 10, 9 equally. He’s one fo those modern forwards who likes to run with the ball at his feet and get into counters. Would be a very different offense from what we are used to if we are planning to build around him. A bit hard to see him and Ozil playing together - would need to be one or the other. He will occupy Ozil’s spaces. Loves the centre, including the centre forward spots.

Bold Tone

I cannot speak for Anzac but my assumption was Fekir instead of Ozil.
The difference of opinion mainly revolved the risks surrounding his injuries and potential after-effects of the surgery.

Related:
Lille striker Nicolas Pepe has had an €80 million (£72m) price tag put on him by sporting director Luis Campos.
https://www.getfootballnewsfrance.com/2018/luis-campos-issues-hands-off-warning-for-nicolas-pepe/

BWoolley

My pick for wide forward would be Lozano. He has the directness and drive to get into the box that our current wingers lack and is hopefully available for a reasonable price. Decent nose for goal too - should contribute 10-15 goals a season.

Jed

BWoolley wrote:
My pick for wide forward would be Lozano. He has the directness and drive to get into the box that our current wingers lack and is hopefully available for a reasonable price. Decent nose for goal too - should contribute 10-15 goals a season.

Agreed

flobaba

If he can make the step up to a top European team.

I have always had my doubts about his quality and consistency. How have his performances been in the past year? Anyway he is probably much better than the Mkhitaryans and Iwobis of this world so I won't be mad.

BWoolley

Think he had good outings against both Inter and Sp*rs in their CL group - 2 goals and an assist I think. Don't really know how he has done in the Eredivisie this season.

Anzac

Bold Tone wrote:
I cannot speak for Anzac but my assumption was Fekir instead of Ozil.
The difference of opinion mainly revolved the risks surrounding his injuries and potential after-effects of the surgery.

Related:
Lille striker Nicolas Pepe has had an €80 million (£72m) price tag put on him by sporting director Luis Campos.
https://www.getfootballnewsfrance.com/2018/luis-campos-issues-hands-off-warning-for-nicolas-pepe/

Correct - and the same applies for me re Isco = both as alternatives to Ozil as CAM in Emery's system, rather than as replacements of Ozil as playmakers. Likewise if we were looking at Isco to play on the flanks as he is currently used at RM then IMO he wouldn't fit the requirements for the role under Emery, as IMO he is more a wide playmaker much like Mkhi / Iwobi.

Anzac

BWoolley wrote:
Think he had good outings against both Inter and Sp*rs in their CL group - 2 goals and an assist I think. Don't really know how he has done in the Eredivisie this season.

https://www.whoscored.com/Players/318511/Show/Hirving-Lozano

11 goals and 6 assists in 17 games.
Seems to be used more as a WF than winger - much like Salah / Sane / Sterling.

Burnwinter

One year tomorrow since Özil re-signed on an Arsenal record deal.

I thought it was a good idea at the time, and a sign of strength from the club under Gazidis.

One year later Gazidis is gone, the structure he supposedly bequeathed us is very shaky, and I feel like I've spent the majority of those 365 days arguing with other gooners whether Özil was worth it or not. To me that says that he wasn't.

This same guy who turns in fitful performances match after match, appears to be at sulky odds with our new upbeat and assertive manager, and is simply imperceptible a lot of the time is our highest ever earner. I like him and I believe fully in his talent, but that just doesn't sit well with me.

Ricky1985

It's strange, Burns. The way we were getting beat from pillar to post this time last year from all directions; journalists, pundits and ex-players, rival fans, Arsenal fans, opponents on the pitch, Alexis fucking Sanchez. Signing Özil felt like a big fuck you to them all. In truth it just hasn't worked out. I'm not sure how much of that is down to Özil himself or his clash with Emery.

Quite a lot of Arsenal fans seem to think he was waving goodbye last night when he was substituted. Can't say I got that impression myself--he always looks sad and/or angry when he gets hooked, but perhaps there is truth to the stories that he and Perisic will swap clubs?

And I can't say I'd be unhappy about it.

Claudius

Ricky, agree that the Ozil signing was big. Remember it was bundled with the arrivals of Mkhitaryan and Aubameyang, apparently signaling our regeneration.
But the troubles started well before Emery, and even before he re-signed. He had been in a malaise forever. Many of us have been hopeful that the player we fell in love with a decade ago will re-appear, but two managers and multiple player combinations later it doesn’t look hopeful.
I would set him free, but I wouldn’t commit to Perisic. I want us to rebuild around youth. So maybe it is best to drag it out another 5 months.

Gurgen

Burnwinter wrote:
One year later Gazidis is gone, the structure he supposedly bequeathed us is very shaky, and I feel like I've spent the majority of those 365 days arguing with other gooners whether Özil was worth it or not. To me that says that he wasn't.

Excellent, objective metric. Empirical judgment at its best 😆

Clrnc

Ricky1985 wrote:
And I can't say I'd be unhappy about it.

That surprises me Ricky. You think there's no hope at all that Ozil will ever come good again? You always had high hopes for him but even now it seems like you have given up

Ricky1985

Look at the past 18 months. What's going to change now or soon to make the next 18 months any different?

He's still a class act on his day--the second half against Leicester is the best performance I've seen from an Arsenal player in a long time--but he's not able reach even 85% of that level often enough to warrant the wages he's on and, more importantly, the central role he needs in the team.

Burnwinter

Gurgen wrote:
Excellent, objective metric. Empirical judgment at its best 😆

😆 Sometimes you have to make observations through secondary phenomena. I'd say fan discontent is definitely one!

ohboy

My issue is, we have not built a settled team around him.

Wenger was constantly on the back foot for the last couple of years changing formation and putting players in the wrong positions.

Now we have Emery who doesn’t seem to know what formation to play and which players, it is a nightmare.

Of course, this also points to the quality of the players, as you would expect your top players to drag you through tough times, and by this metric, Ozil has failed.

He is not worth his wages, but he is undoubtedly still one of our top players, I would argue top 3.

I wish I could see him behind a striker, with two top wide men and see what he could do on a consistent basis, alas that seems like it will never happen.

I actually believe the wide men will come this summer, there are quite a few options out there, but will Ozil survive the summer? Highly doubt it.

awooga83

His performance level for us these past two seasons have not been good enough to justify the money we have been paying him. He's technically our star player but does not perform like that nearly enough.

As for that waving thing, I'm not sure that's a sign of anything ozil always waves to the crowd and as he was going off the stadium have him a rendition of his name so I think he was just acknowledging that.

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