The Ozil Money Pit: Page 29 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

The Ozil Money Pit

jones

Bold Tone wrote:
jones wrote:
Well maybe in that case it's more an issue with your perception? Not to say there isn't any room for improvement - there obviously is, and there are clearly players who we could upgrade on. But at the same time one poor game - where both our star strikers missed a sitter each, the ref chalked off a perfectly valid goal plus several other poor calls - as an example of us nog creating chances? You guys seriously need to start watching other teams if you think that, no team other than City have scored more than we have so far this season

I was actually disagreeing with Ray's post regarding goals scored and the "stats" comment is the same as your point about "perception". The two key words in the bolded sentence are "looking like" so we are on the same side of the discussion.

Apologies, misunderstood the post. Carry on then

goon

Claudius wrote:
How is 25m pounds cut price for an injury-prone 30 year old on 350,000 pounds a week? Daily Mail on that NOX.

If they can get up to 10m pounds, dump the guy. We have 17m pounds a year going to him. Put that into transfer fees and wages for the next up-and-coming Sane or van Dijk

This is completely backwards in my view. For one thing, we don't need to dump the guy for fund the next Sane or van Dijk. The whole point of going for guys like that is so that we can keep our best players and build a squad. More importantly though, you should only sell your established stars once those sorts of signings have taken their spot.

Many were clamoring for Guendouzi to start ahead of Xhaka at the start of the season, yet as talented as he is it's become quite evident that the latter offers much more when starting despite all his flaws. Can you imagine someone trying to take Mesut's role in the side? Despite all his flaws they're big shoes to fill. Despite Iwobi being flavour of the month he'd be torn to shreds with that sort of responsibility as would any other new kid on the block if it didn't work.

The only circumstance I'd sell Mesut is if we had a big deal lined up to replace him.

Qwiss

banduan wrote:
jones wrote:
Those terrible huff and puffing players you've listed were instrumental in our 4-2 win (which should've been 4-0 if it weren't for Mike Dean) literally a week ago.

that's not what he meant tho.

the question is why do we lean on these players to create or break through when we have players for the job on the bench.

Which players? No one on the bench has more assists than Laca or Auba this season. Iwobi has 3 assists which is ok, same as Torriera. Xhaka and Kolasinac have more than Mhki. He brought on Mhki and Iwobi and they weren't great.

Gurgen

It's quite simple really: other than Ozil, the players competing for the AM positions are Iwobi, Mkhitaryan and Ramsey. Ozil is a better footballer than all of them put together and one of them is leaving, so talk of selling Ozil is absolutely insane.

QuincyAbeyie

Depends on whether we're going to play with a dedicated AM. Lots of clubs don't.

Gurgen

Quincy Abeyie wrote:
Depends on whether we're going to play with a dedicated AM. Lots of clubs don't.

We've played with either two AMs (both central) in a 3-4-2-1 or three (one central) in a 4-2-3-1 in pretty much every game this season.

goon

Emery has historically preferred using an AM/10 too hasn't he?

Burnwinter

Gurgen wrote:
It's quite simple really: other than Ozil, the players competing for the AM positions are Iwobi, Mkhitaryan and Ramsey. Ozil is a better footballer than all of them put together and one of them is leaving, so talk of selling Ozil is absolutely insane.

All of that can be true and it can also be true that Özil is out of sorts, out of form, in decline and fucking expensive. I wouldn't mind hearing we had a chance to sell him and replace him at all, especially if he really does have an issue with Emery.

Qwiss

I'd be very happy to sell Ozil but I don't think there is any chance of it happening. Who on earth would match the wages we pay him? We are stuck with him so we need to figure out how he's best utilised.

mdgoonah41

Qwiss! wrote:
I'd be very happy to sell Ozil but I don't think there is any chance of it happening. Who on earth would match the wages we pay him? We are stuck with him so we need to figure out how he's best utilised.

maybe AC milan?? gazidis gave him that massive contract, maybe he'd be willing to do it again

QuincyAbeyie

Higuain is Milan's highest earner and he gets half of what Özil gets. It's also rumoured that Juventus are paying some of that.

mdgoonah41

yeah i wasnt really serious. id imagine PSG, madrid and barca are the only clubs that would do it.

i guess if PSG have to sell neymar or mbappe this summer due to FFP, they might be interested in ozil at a cut rate price.

Gurgen

Burnwinter wrote:
Gurgen wrote:
It's quite simple really: other than Ozil, the players competing for the AM positions are Iwobi, Mkhitaryan and Ramsey. Ozil is a better footballer than all of them put together and one of them is leaving, so talk of selling Ozil is absolutely insane.

All of that can be true and it can also be true that Özil is out of sorts, out of form, in decline and fucking expensive. I wouldn't mind hearing we had a chance to sell him and replace him at all, especially if he really does have an issue with Emery.

I'm fine as long as we replace him by David Silva, Payet, Messi or Hazard.

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert

As long as he's 10 years their junior that would be good.

Claudius

These stats show that Ozil has had only one really standout season - 2015/16, his second.

He has generally been able to create a high number of key passes per game, in line with De Bruyne's ₃ per game. This season, however, he is down sharply despite having Lacazette, Aubameyang and Mkhi in front of him.

I can forgive his minutes per assist in the two previous seasons if we attribute that to a dysfunction in Walcott and Giroud, but the idea that he is the most productive playmaker in Europe is overplayed. That might have been true a couple of years ago of the back of his 2015/16 season and his Madrid numbers, but we are talking about a player who is struggling now

Gurgen

The stat missing there is chances created.

mdgoonah41

id be more interested in seeing his numbers against man united, man city, chelsea, liverpool and spuds. hazard, for instance, has great numbers against the other big sides. i struggle to remember a huge ozil performance against one of those 5 teams.

for a while, i went out of my way to defend ozil to my arsenal pals and non-arsenal pals alike. at this point though, i dont think hes really helping the team, and more importantly, emery doesnt feel he is up to it, and emery's opinion is the one that really matters.

Klaus

We generally don't rack up massive performances in big games because we're a bit shit. That's not on Özil, that's on Arsenal and the way this club has been run.

He was stellar when we beat Spurs last season though, and he was the main reason we turned 0-2 into 3-2 against Liverpool within ten minutes. It was hardly his fault that we conceded again a few minutes later and robbed him of what should've been a winning goal crowning a remarkable turnaround. The idea that he doesn't perform in big games is a complete myth. I genuinely can't be arsed to go look for it but the stats are out there if anyone wants to google. He has scored and assisted against all of them at a rate that is comparable to how players at superior teams perform. This is just lazy bottom-of-the-barrel criticism at this stage peddled by twats like TalkSport.

Mirth

mdgoonah41 wrote:
for a while, i went out of my way to defend ozil to my arsenal pals and non-arsenal pals alike. at this point though, i dont think hes really helping the team, and more importantly, emery doesnt feel he is up to it, and emery's opinion is the one that really matters.

More importantly, regardless of how he was doing in the past few seasons, he was still returning once every 3 games or so. Under Emery the drop off is much more stark - despite him not having any international football and, in theory, playing with strikers that are more suited to his natural game.

Of course Ozil's overall contribution is beyond a handful of selective numbers and he's still the only thing close to a creative midfielder this club has so anyone wanting him out before a replacement has been lined up is playing with fire.

goon

Bit of a presumption there md, and I feel like you might be projecting a little. He was dropped for 1 game against Bournmouth but that’s about it, Auba and Laca have been dropped a few times too.

Also why would you be more interested in the big games? Do assists, general impact and points earned not matter in the smaller games? I was more dissapointed in his lack of impact against Wolves as much as any of the so called big games.

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