The Ozil Money Pit: Page 15 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

The Ozil Money Pit

Qwiss

Coombs wrote:
Was Mao very tall?

No but he'd cat like reflexes and a strong wrists.

Klaus

Mao Zedong, the David Ospina of dictators.

Gurgen

jones wrote:
The whole attitude of the West towards Turkey reeks of hypocrisy, no one stops for a second to think about why it is that an emerging country with a laicist constitution and a society that as a whole was on a path of modernisation in the Western sense, has dug its heels in and made a 180° turn to elect Erdogan and switch from a parliamentary to a presidential governmental system.

Since the Ankara treaty of 1963 Turkish governments have negotiated for literal decades with European leaders for accession to the EEC, the EC and finally the EU. While every other potential member state was almost immediately fast tracked Turkey was time after time kept on the sidelines looking on with no access to the single market. Even countries with no intention to enter the EU whatsoever like Norway or Switzerland have a lot more favourable terms of trade with the rest of Europe. Why?

Remember in France 2007 one of the first things Sarkozy did after winning the election was to immediately and unilaterally announce that Turkey's accessions negotiations will be put on hold until further notice. Next thing you see is Erdogan wins the election in 2007 with close to 50% of the vote when five years ago he barely got around 30%. Even small time local and regional politicians in Germany have been for years talking about how, once elected, they'll put pressure on Merkel/Schröder to suspend or abandon accession talks.

Meanwhile NATO forces ie those who share the "values" the European Union holds in sacred regard have been bombing destabilising and pillaging countries in Turkey's immediate vicinity from before the treaty of Ankara, causing not only repeated "refugee crises" of dimensions never seen in Europe but of course also raising questions in the overall population why their Muslim neighbours needed to be bombed and invaded.

Is it really that hard to understand that Turks would turn their backs on the West after a while? This isn't even the usual "population shifts to the right in times of crisis" spiel that occurs in the West as it doesn't really apply here, the question you'd need to ask is how does a pro-Western politician in Turkey garner votes in an environment like this with not only no support from the outside but active hindrances being posed for more than 50 years?

Özil dumb as he might be understands at least the part of this where he feels the latent or open racism from parts of the political and media landscape as well as the population as his last statement proves. I Don't think there's any reason to believe that he condones Erdogans actions in Syria or his persecution of Kurds. But I do think that like many other Turks he's genuine when he says "it's not about what person but that it's the president" - why would he play the askari and 'side' with 'Germany' against the Turkish president when the latter at least didn't show him open hostility?

Erm, it’s about siding with your own people, not siding with Germany. You get that right? Half of Turkey (the modern half) hates Erdogan and is as disgusted by that picture as anyone in Germany. My Turkish friends would rather cut their balls off than take a picture with Erdogan. I would no longer speak to anyone who willingly took a picture with Serzh Sarkisian, the now deposed Armenian version of Erdogan.

Bold Tone

Gurgen wrote:
Bold Tone wrote:
So, in your mind, Erdogan is equivalent to Hitler?

Do me a favour and, in the following order:

read what Ozil wrote about the photo again

read what I wrote again

read your post again.

I've read everything and my question is based purely on your post as you arrived at what i consider an extreme conclusion.
As Ozil noted, i don't think the Queen would meet Hitler.

banduan

Oh that's the last straw, the Queen must never play football for England again!

Captain

Looks significantly happier about it than when she was carted out for Trump.

Burnwinter

Gurgen wrote:
What on earth are you on about man? What does any of this have to do with the genocide? You truly are a very disturbed individual.

No offence meant.

I'm just aware you're of Armenian extraction, you've mentioned those events on here with reference to Turkish politics and history quite a few times. In this thread you're making Hitler references and protesting the Erdogan association much more strongly than others.

It's relevant to Erdogan's own career trajectory: EU member nation demands for Turkey to acknowledge the genocide were one of the reasons AKP became more domestically popular.

Burnwinter

Mirth wrote:
Coombs wrote:
Was Mao very tall?

Exactly, he wouldn't play in goal. Jones has lost the plot.

😆

jones

Mirth wrote:
Coombs wrote:
Was Mao very tall?

Exactly, he wouldn't play in goal. Jones has lost the plot.

Well you go ahead then and find me a mass murdering dictator who could play in goal. None of them are taller than 5'8 which is very obviously part of the reason why they became misanthropes in the first place.

Burnwinter

Saddam was a solid 6'.

Mirth

Idi Amin would be my shout.

Jed

jones wrote:
Mirth wrote:
Exactly, he wouldn't play in goal. Jones has lost the plot.

Well you go ahead then and find me a mass murdering dictator who could play in goal. None of them are taller than 5'8 which is very obviously part of the reason why they became misanthropes in the first place.

Bashar Al-Assad. 6'4".

jones

https://reconquista-internet.de/portfolio/oezil

Qwiss

Burnwinter wrote:
Saddam was a solid 6'.

Trumps 6' 3

jones

Alright you guys can play Pulis style hoofball all day but the greatest mass murdering midgets and evil tyrants always come in dwarf size, see Hitler Stalin Thatcher Reagan or Milton Friedman.

Gurgen

One of my Turkish mates is convinced this is mainly a business thing as Ozil sees his long-term future in Turkey and not in Germany. Apparently he is a big hero in Turkey and all doors will open for him as long as he remains friendly with whoever is in charge. Says he would take a picture with anyone as long as it serves his interests. Also told me Ozil actually wanted to play for Turkey back in the day but Terim did not like him for some reason. This last part seems a bit far-fetched to me but crazier things have happened. Because I know you will: don't shoot the messenger.

Burnwinter

Fair enough, but that theory is only about Özil's motivations. It doesn't explain why half the German football establishment is attacking him.

Gurgen

No it doesn't, but I've been exclusively talking about his motivations this whole time. This is an issue completely separate from the way he has been treated, which treatment obviously has nasty xenophobic elements. As I've said before, I don't have an issue with his decision to quit the national team. That decision seems justified to me. I do have an issue with the fact that he does not want to admit that he has done something wrong.

arsedocmd

jones wrote:
Alright you guys can play Pulis style hoofball all day but the greatest mass murdering midgets and evil tyrants always come in dwarf size, see Hitler Stalin Thatcher Reagan or Milton Friedman.

Rupert Murdoch can manage. Unbeatable.

Burnwinter

Ok. Seems there's not much evidence regarding his motivations.

Definitely anyone who got a photo taken with Erdogan was either not very switched on, or maybe switched on the wrong way. Same goes for Gundogan. But if either has made a careful public statement supporting Erdogan that would be much more damning.

In his statement it's implicit that he's backing away from support for Erdogan whether real or apparent, by saying he was honouring his nation not making a political gesture.

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