Xhaka - worst buy in recent history?: Page 38 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Xhaka - worst buy in recent history?

MistaT

flobaba wrote:
He was playing a man marking role from what I saw. Putting pressure on Pogba every time he had the ball, and not there to facilitate our attack in anyway, despite being in presumably an “advanced” position.

That's what I saw too. Much in the way we've seen Jorginho and other focal points get man marked by Emery in the past.

Was it worth it though? Didn't see Pogba play many dangerous balls forward.....

Claudius

Captain wrote:
Maybe the stories that he wasn't settled in London were true.

Why are so many players out of form?

goon

Qwiss! wrote:
goon wrote:
I dunno, I think you're being harsh. He felt like he was the heartbeat of the side in the first half of 2018. Looking back Torreira had 65 touches in the 4-2 game against Spurs last season, 78 against United in the 2-2 the following game, so the stats support that theory. He's been struggling for a while but I don't think he's a player you can accuse of hiding.

Well those stats have taken a massive downturn this season. You'd have to wonder whats going on?

To be fair to him he's had no pre-season without a break in the summer after already looking jaded last season. He has since been in and out of the side in different roles. I'd give him a while before really getting concerned. As Claud points out he's not the only player playing well below their best, Sokratis has definitely dropped a level, Laca was awful before getting injured and say what you like about him but even Xhaka is capable of a lot better than what we're seeing. Auba, Leno, Douzi, Willock and Chambers aside, pretty much everyone is in a funk.

Clrnc

Torreira was absolutely fine playing as a ball winning midfielder last year. We just need Emery to stop over complicating things, play him back as a double pivot. He played there against Nottingham Forest and Frankfurt and was fine.

Captain

Claudius wrote:
Captain wrote:
Maybe the stories that he wasn't settled in London were true.

Why are so many players out of form?

I don't know if they're actually out of form. I suspect many are giving everything they can under this manager.

Anzac

Was reading an article earlier today (I don't remember where), that suggested Xhaka was signed as a result of his rating on a new metric that originated in the BL that measures how many players are by-passed per game via passing.
Point being that this ability does not automatically translate to the player being a creative playmaker or suited to playing as the deepest CM.

IIRC there were reports last season that Xhaka had the most number of passes into the opposition defensive 3rd or something like that, whereas this year he's well down in terms of both Through Balls and Key Passes.

By all means play Xhaka in midfield, but NOT as the deepest CM.

Qwiss

goon wrote:
Qwiss! wrote:
Well those stats have taken a massive downturn this season. You'd have to wonder whats going on?

To be fair to him he's had no pre-season without a break in the summer after already looking jaded last season. He has since been in and out of the side in different roles. I'd give him a while before really getting concerned. As Claud points out he's not the only player playing well below their best, Sokratis has definitely dropped a level, Laca was awful before getting injured and say what you like about him but even Xhaka is capable of a lot better than what we're seeing. Auba, Leno, Douzi, Willock and Chambers aside, pretty much everyone is in a funk.

I don't think Sokratis has every been good here and I was saying it all last season.

Your point has merit over all though. The teams underperforming and Torreira is still quite young. I was just very frustrated with him on Monday, that was probably his worst Arsenal performance.

On Xhaka his importance has diminished under Emery, not sure its great for Xhaka but I'm glad he's less important to our game. Douzi does half the work he used to now which I think makes us more flexible to move on from Xhaka if we want.

KingslandBarge

I thought Sokratis played quite well on Monday; could be the start of a turnaround.

Qwiss

I actually agree on that. One of his better games. Thought Luiz looked much shakier.

Bold Tone

He is getting a lot of shit now as he is off form but without Sokratis, last season would have been a complete disaster.
His pace was the reason Holding was able to look good last season as he has no pace and the alternatives were Mustafi and Monreal.
With Koscielny out, he held the defence together with a motley crew of changing partners who couldn't defend properly (Kolasinac, AMN and even Xhaka at one point!).
I notice his errors have increased with the change to the right-sided CB role as Luiz, who can head but is a defender in name only with his feet, has taken the left-sided role where he looked solid when paired with Chambers in the first game of the season.

Qwiss

I think he gets way ahead of where he should be too often, probably cos he used to be quicker and playing in the PL. He gets caught out now. He's rash too which makes him a liability, especially in the VAR era. I think he's making more errors beside Luiz because he has the same issue of pushing forward. Last season he'd have Mustafi covering and then Mustafi would make the final mistake and end up taking all the shit from the fans but there was 2 of them in it. No coincidence Mustafi got worse with Sok beside him too.

We really haven't had a good centre half partnership since Kos and Mert were both fit and healthy together. Emery has 4/5 centre halves now that he should be able to find 2 that click from, at least a little bit.

Clrnc

Luiz ball playing ability was on full show at OT. Quite a number of superb cross field balls.

But agree Sokratis looks much more solid. There were a number of times he completely outpaced the United forwards.

Meatwad

sokratis being fast was the biggest surprise for me when he came. thought he was serious at first though, but that turned out to be wrong because he's a clown as well.

Bold Tone

Qwiss! wrote:
I think he gets way ahead of where he should be too often, probably cos he used to be quicker and playing in the PL. He gets caught out now. He's rash too which makes him a liability, especially in the VAR era. I think he's making more errors beside Luiz because he has the same issue of pushing forward. Last season he'd have Mustafi covering and then Mustafi would make the final mistake and end up taking all the shit from the fans but there was 2 of them in it. No coincidence Mustafi got worse with Sok beside him too.

We really haven't had a good centre half partnership since Kos and Mert were both fit and healthy together. Emery has 4/5 centre halves now that he should be able to find 2 that click from, at least a little bit.

I don't think he is anywhere near as poor or as rash as Mustafi. The yellow cards he has got have been marginal with the attacker just about getting to the ball before him rather than Mustafi's errors that are just very stupid like letting the striker waltz round him then cry to the ref for a non-existent foul or blame the keeper. He was also fucking up well before Sokratis joined us. Finally, the manager whose job is on the line has chosen Sokratis over Mustafi every time.

Qwiss

What are you arguing about? I never said he was worse than Mustafi. Though its marginal at best.

Bold Tone

My first sentence:

I don't think he is anywhere near as poor or as rash as Mustafi.

This is not saying he is/was worse than Mustafi.
I was simply arguing that he wasn't as bad last season as he is, currently.

Anzac

Was reading something earlier that suggested the issues with Mustafi, Sokratis & Luiz is that they are all essentially front foot defenders who like to go forward to meet the opposition and are too alike to be able to work well in tandem in any combination amongst the 3 of them. The return of both Holding and Chambers offers options of players who do not look to get forward and provide balance.

If we were to look to balance skill sets then you'd consider a Sokratis-Holding & Luiz-Chambers pairings so as to have 1 CB in each who is good in the air and one who is comfortable with ball at feet.

MuswellHillGooner

That much is true and it's usually smaller defenders who use this method to make up for their size and height disadvantage. It's a high risk, high reward tactic that works if the player has quick feet but any mistake is a massive opportunity for the attacker.

MistaT

Don’t think Sokratis is a front foot defender

QuincyAbeyie

Yeah Mustafi, Sok and Luiz are always on the back foot.

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