The one we ain't playing 2017/18: Page 11 - The Arsenal discussion community: One More in the Tolly

The one we ain't playing 2017/18

Clrnc

Qwiss! wrote:
4 out 5 English teams topping their groups. #bestleagueintheworld

Extremely annoying to see all of them doing well and qualifying easily. And most of them will probably make QFs too to boost England's coefficient without us being thrashed in the last 16 this season.

I was watching this Spurs result and thinking, have Wenger ever beaten a top team in europe so comfortably that he can even rest his star players 10-15 mins before the end? And who from our team can get into theirs? Alexis definitely, Kolasinac probably. Hard to argue the case for anyone else.

Burnwinter

Spurs are playing well but it doesn't mean they're good enough to win anything.

I'm glad if they're putting a bit of pressure on us at this point. Looking forward to the reckoning of the next fortnight even if it doesn't end well for us.

Claudius

It's bad enough watching Spurs tearing apart a foreign team. Do you really want to sit through them in this form playing this Arsenal team?

Claudius

Imagine if Ramsey played for Spurs. He would be considered the Welsh Pele

Burnwinter

Claudius wrote:
It's bad enough watching Spurs tearing apart a foreign team. Do you really want to sit through them in this form playing this Arsenal team?

The faster reality gets us, the faster we get real.

Besides I think we'll have a great chance against them. Wouldn't be surprised if we were the "game-raising cunts" this time around.

Qwiss

Clrnc wrote:
And who from our team can get into theirs? Alexis definitely, Kolasinac probably. Hard to argue the case for anyone else.

Most of them probably. They'd look way better under Pochetino.

Clrnc

Qwiss! wrote:
Clrnc wrote:
And who from our team can get into theirs? Alexis definitely, Kolasinac probably. Hard to argue the case for anyone else.

Most of them probably. They'd look way better under Pochetino.

That's an interesting line of thinking, but honestly which coach can make Lacazette or Ramsey etc to have more natural ability to compete against Kane and Dele Alli? They might be somewhat more efficient in a cohesive team, but probably not better individual players per se. And we have too many flawed players that is either not good enough or injury prone

goon

Ramsey is as good as anyone when it comes to natural ability. In fact he's probably the main player that would benefit from a structured team and coaching than any other player I can think of.

Forget about the likes of Kos and Nacho who could easily slot in, I'd bet you even Mustafi would look twice the player at Tottenham. The likes of Vertonghen and Dier especially are dime a dozen defenders.

Rohit

I think Vertonghen and Alderweireld are top class physically and technically. It will be interesting to see how Pochettino does at a bigger club. He has made Tottenham difficult a difficult team to score against. Tottenham had the record of conceding more Premier League goals than any other club until last season, I don't know if that has changed. He has done really well to turn a club that historically has had a defense that leaks goals into a tight unit. He doesn't have a great record against big teams away from home. I personally think Tottenham have some very strong individuals that we may underrate, especially physically. Think they have shown more physical endurance than any other club in the League, may be Europe, and also have a high technical level. If anything Pochettino should have at least won a Cup by now.

The difference between Pochettino and Wenger is that the former knows what works for him and what works in the League - type of player and the kind of football, and he spends in the market accordingly. Wenger abandoned what worked for him and his spends in the market are not aligned to the football he wants the team to play.

est

I agree with Qs. The 'flawed' player excuse is all to do with the incompetence of the manager. His system, his players.

A proper manager either picks the right players for his system or coaches the players in a way that doesn't expose their weaknesses. You don't put Mertesacker in a high line or play a midfield three of Xhaka-Ramsey-Özil when you allow Ramsey to play as a second striker and give Özil complete freedom and no defensive responsibility. It's just common sense, but it's too much for Wenger to figure out.

And it's not like he has just come in to a new club and has to work with just the players that he has in his disposal. He's had 20 fucking years to mould the squad and get in the players with the skill-sets that he wants. Years of negligent and incompetent management has lead us to this sorry mess of a situation.

jones

Rohit wrote:
I think Vertonghen and Alderweireld are top class physically and technically. It will be interesting to see how Pochettino does at a bigger club. He has made Tottenham difficult a difficult team to score against. Tottenham had the record of conceding more Premier League goals than any other club until last season, I don't know if that has changed. He has done really well to turn a club that historically has had a defense that leaks goals into a tight unit. He doesn't have a great record against big teams away from home. I personally think Tottenham have some very strong individuals that we may underrate, especially physically. Think they have shown more physical endurance than any other club in the League, may be Europe, and also have a high technical level. If anything Pochettino should have at least won a Cup by now.

Seeing that he hasn't what is your explanation for that?

arsedocmd

He lacks the showbiz killer instinct. He seems like one of the long term planners kinda person. Steady punching above his weight with sticking to basics and hardwork but no charisma or swag....yet.

Mirth

Clrnc wrote:
Qwiss! wrote:
Most of them probably. They'd look way better under Pochetino.

That's an interesting line of thinking, but honestly which coach can make Lacazette or Ramsey etc to have more natural ability to compete against Kane and Dele Alli? They might be somewhat more efficient in a cohesive team, but probably not better individual players per se. And we have too many flawed players that is either not good enough or injury prone

I haven't seen of Lacazette to compare but, having seen Ramsey develop I'd say the reason they're flawed is precisely because of a lack of coaching and guidance instead of ability. Sure, it's hard to sit and say that Ramsey is better than Kane as things stand now but that's at least partly down to how he's been developed imo.

I'm not saying Wenger doesn't do any coaching or ruins all players because he's definitely made Koscielny, Giroud and Monreal better players but those players came to Arsenal with some identity. They had a style of play that was further refined. Meanwhile for a lot of the younger players Wenger's tried to bring through, I honestly feel they lacked proper direction - you can start with Ramsey, Chamberlain and go all the way back to Walcott to see examples of that.

Qwiss

goon wrote:
Ramsey is as good as anyone when it comes to natural ability. In fact he's probably the main player that would benefit from a structured team and coaching than any other player I can think of.

Forget about the likes of Kos and Nacho who could easily slot in, I'd bet you even Mustafi would look twice the player at Tottenham. The likes of Vertonghen and Dier especially are dime a dozen defenders.

Exactly. And theres no way Tottenham has a better natural full back then Bellerin. Xhaka too would probably be great for Pochetino. Its not just Spurs either, look at all the players who looked brilliant under him at Soton too.

Qwiss

jones wrote:
Seeing that he hasn't what is your explanation for that?

Spurs gonna Spurs.

Klaus

Clrnc wrote:
That's an interesting line of thinking, but honestly which coach can make Lacazette or Ramsey etc to have more natural ability to compete against Kane and Dele Alli?

Are we really questioning that Ramsey has more ability than Dele Alli now?

Clrnc

Klaus wrote:
Clrnc wrote:
That's an interesting line of thinking, but honestly which coach can make Lacazette or Ramsey etc to have more natural ability to compete against Kane and Dele Alli?

Are we really questioning that Ramsey has more ability than Dele Alli now?

Guy is an outright cunt and dives constantly, but he's going to have a better career. His goalscoring ratio is Lampard's level from midfield and some of the shits and finishing he pull out on the pitch is outstanding.

Ramsey has to sort out his inconsistent touch and finishing for a start.

I don't think its all down to the manager and developing, but more of scouting and buying players unless we are talking about Kane. Most of their players are bought for peanuts and has turned out to be better than people thought for the past 3 seasons. See Aldeweireld, he had a 10m release clause after a fantastic season with Southampton yet we didn't move. Ok, we chose Szczesny over Lloris and Ozil over Eriksen those days which is reasonable enough while Vertonghen rejected us, but we should have gotten obvious talents like Dembele, Son, Alli easily.

It's true that for me Dier is not that special either, but for 4m he is extremely value for money when you consider Mourinho wanted him for a lot of money this summer. That same window, we bought Chambers for 16m. Ornstein is right, we have a dinosaur department in terms of scouting and buying players.

goon

Well, why didn't United, Chelsea and City pick up on Alli? You can't get all of them.

Guys like Son are, again, a dime a dozen. He wouldn't do anything here, he'd have just been another Lucas. Which is the point everyone is making, these are not great players that Tottenham have managed to find that no one else has. Yhey've bought well yes, but mostly they've just got them working well together.

People underestimate the impact a well functioning team can make on a player. See our 07/08 side. With the exception of Fabregas, none of them were particularly special.

Clrnc wrote:
Klaus wrote:
Are we really questioning that Ramsey has more ability than Dele Alli now?

some of the shits and finishing he pull out on the pitch is outstanding.

Lineker esque imo.

Rohit

Qwiss! wrote:
jones wrote:
Seeing that he hasn't what is your explanation for that?

Spurs gonna Spurs.

And that Pochettino may not have proportionate impact at a bigger club.

jones

Klaus wrote:
Clrnc wrote:
That's an interesting line of thinking, but honestly which coach can make Lacazette or Ramsey etc to have more natural ability to compete against Kane and Dele Alli?

Are we really questioning that Ramsey has more ability than Dele Alli now?

Not even targeting Clrnc but I've a feeling this shit is getting worse every matchweek. As soon as one of our rivals has a good result some can't help but fall over wanking themselves to death over rival players or managers. I'm one of Ramsey's biggest critics around, his first touch is infuriatingly inconsistent and his selfishness starting around 14/15 drives me mad but seriously, comparing him to Alli? 😆 He's a forward in everything but his name, what does he offer exactly but his goals?

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