Gun violence in USA: Page 26 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Gun violence in USA

flobaba

jones wrote:
I'd genuinely rather live in Mogadishu than the US. There's senseless loss of lives over crime, famine, wars and many other things but this is a different level of senseless.

Lol. Liar.

Mirth

jones

flobaba wrote:
jones wrote:
I'd genuinely rather live in Mogadishu than the US. There's senseless loss of lives over crime, famine, wars and many other things but this is a different level of senseless.

Lol. Liar.

I'm not lying. There's a lot of interesting and influential stuff going on there and lots of nature but the history, government and large aspects of society are as revolting as no other place on earth to me.

Mogadishu on the other hand might be dangerous but has the best injera/canjeero in the world.

Coombs

goon wrote:
Quincy Abeyie wrote:
Exactly. There are comments on that video basically saying "not that it defends his actions, but these people were really mean" and they don't understand that just saying that in itself is to defend him.

The thing is watching that video I reckon whatever cultural issue Coombs is referring to is evident from both sides here. Anyone who's standing and baiting a guy who's firing a gun at you suffers from the same defect.

No, the both sides conversation does not fly here. Being an insufferable prick is nothing remotely like murdering people because they huwt your feewings. One you'll find the world over, and the other you'll see in regressive cultures that celebrate racism, sexism, insecurity, normality complexes, and delusional elitism.

Klaus

I absentmindedly clicked on the video on the previous page without realising fully what it was about. I feel genuinely sick now.

goon

Coombs wrote:
goon wrote:
The thing is watching that video I reckon whatever cultural issue Coombs is referring to is evident from both sides here. Anyone who's standing and baiting a guy who's firing a gun at you suffers from the same defect.

No, the both sides conversation does not fly here. Being an insufferable prick is nothing remotely like murdering people because they huwt your feewings. One you'll find the world over, and the other you'll see in regressive cultures that celebrate racism, sexism, insecurity, normality complexes, and delusional elitism.

I'm not talking about them being pricks, I'm referring specifically to their reaction to a guy pointing and then firing a gun in their general direction. They don't blink and basically bait him and I suspect it's driven by much the same sort reasoning and underlying conditioning as the guy firing the gun.

KurtEisner

goon wrote:
Coombs wrote:
No, the both sides conversation does not fly here. Being an insufferable prick is nothing remotely like murdering people because they huwt your feewings. One you'll find the world over, and the other you'll see in regressive cultures that celebrate racism, sexism, insecurity, normality complexes, and delusional elitism.

I'm not talking about them being pricks, I'm referring specifically to their reaction to a guy pointing and then firing a gun in their general direction. They don't blink and basically bait him and I suspect it's driven by much the same sort reasoning and underlying conditioning as the guy firing the gun.

Absolutely. I'm a sociologist and if I were to analyse their behaviour, I'm pretty sure it would confirm your suspicion.

I get Coombs' point though (assuming I'm not misunderstanding him), as soon as you start to talk about the way the victims behaved with a gun in their face, it distracts from the fact that no matter how puzzling it is, it becomes a non-issue if they're not facing a crazy murderer. So while talking about how crazy it is that those two continued provoking him is a conversation worth having behind closed doors, and I count this Arsenal forum as pretty much behind closed doors, it absolutely needs to stay out of the public discourse, and that includes Twitter etc. Because really the only thing the American public needs to focus on here is the fact that one man took it upon himself to shoot two people and himself over absolutely trivial nonsense. The dead couple needs to be treated as victims of senseless violence and only that, because as soon as Fox News or some other bullshit media outlet starts talking about why they didn't back down, it opens the door to them becoming reckless idiots in the eye of the public instead of victims exclusively.

jones

One guy killed two people in cold blood then committed suicide, the other two acted suicidal. The blame falls clearly with the former, but it doesn't make the behaviour of the other two any less understandable. I think it's a valid observation and doesn't absolve the murderer of his wrongdoing.

Meatwad

Kurt Eisner wrote:
Meatwad wrote:
dumping snow from your driveway to your neighbor's and calling him a pussy might seem like something a normal person should get over by simply calling the police or submit to the bullying. but that guy is not normal and he saw that as an opportunity to end their existence. what prize did that couple win by thinking oh we're only being assholes we won't lose our life over that? what if that couple instead of dumping snow onto their neighbor's driveway and calling him a pussy just moved the snow from their driveway to the side or front of their yard and go about their day?

I'm sorry, what the fuck are you talking about? Two people were brutally murdered for dumping fucking snow in their neighbours driveway and insulting him. Absolutely no one in their right mind should expect to get shot over that, only happens in the US. And here you are insinuating that they were assholes who should have known better than to provoke their neighbour, because he just might be insane and have multiple guns in his house? Sorry, but that kind of logic is part of the problem in the US, you're normalising people getting shot like animals and suggesting they were out of line. If someone dumps snow in my driveway you think I take that as an excuse to become violent, even if they insult me during it? Fuck no! In no way, shape or form does that ever justify violence of any sort. If that guy were a "real man" instead of an insane fucking prick he'd have just shrugged that shit off, but because it happened in the US he ended up shooting them and himself, because his "manhood" was threatened or because that's the way you solve problems in the US apparently. In no way should the discussion about that video be about the behaviour of the two neighbours who where shot. It would never be in the rest of the world.

obviously that's not the way to solve it. you solve it legally. he killed himself because he knew that was cold-blooded murder and not self-defense and a life sentence or death was in his future. but don't go around provoking people and shit like this doesn't happen. they fucked with someone who had no problem taking his own life. the lesson in all of this is have some basic human decency towards your neighbors. if you wake up every morning with the mindset of being kind to people instead of waking up thinking "how can I fuck with that pussy across the street?" we'd have better outcomes.

Coombs

jones wrote:
One guy killed two people in cold blood then committed suicide, the other two acted suicidal. The blame falls clearly with the former, but it doesn't make the behaviour of the other two any less understandable. I think it's a valid observation and doesn't absolve the murderer of his wrongdoing.

The problem is that in the US, it does exactly that.

@Kurt, no you don't misunderstand at all. That's exactly what I mean.

More generally, though, acting "crazy" just isn't a good reason to be murdered. "Love thy neighbor because he might be a lunatic who will murder you" is not a code I will ever live by. What a horrible way to go through life.

I'll just qualify my position by saying I've personally been physically involved in a situation not entirely unlike this one. So yea, I have no time for anything less than total and utter condemnation of raging insecure men who carry death machines around to feel hard. It's wrong, it's despicable, and it doesn't matter how rude or provocative the victim is. It's totally irrelevant.

Like Klaus I clicked on that video without really paying attention to what I was doing and it's brought back some of this shit or me in a way I did not expect or intend. The Pennsylvania connection (where I grew up) really got to me for whatever reason.

RC8

Kurt Eisner wrote:
In order to overcome the violence, the US will have to overcome an integral part of its history and culture. You can only hope that movements like BLM are only the beginning.

I've lost hope long ago. A few friends of mine were big organisers during the first wave of protests in 2014 and I was quite enthusiastic about its potential transformative effects with regards to gun violence in the US.

Unfortunately in order to highlight the racism aspect of US-problems they instead rushed to downplay all the other insane cultural aspects that account for the bulk of the violence.

Check out the Socialist Rifle Association twitter if you want to explore the depths of nonsense americans are capable of:

https://twitter.com/SocialistRA

All these issues are also disgustingly apparent in the police shooting video from Maryland last week (the one where a bystander yells at the policeman to shoot a guy that's clearly unwell and is charging at the cop with a stick, then joyously celebrates when the guy is murdered)

RC8

Coombs wrote:
More generally, though, acting "crazy" just isn't a good reason to be murdered. "Love thy neighbor because he might be a lunatic who will murder you" is not a code I will ever live by. What a horrible way to go through life

What an unamerican thing to say Coombs.

arsedocmd

https://www.fox5atlanta.com/news/man-confesses-to-multiple-spa-shootings-motivated-by-addiction-to-sex

More crazy violence and tragic deaths.

goon

I saw a clip of the press conference yesterday, the tone towards the perpetrator was very sombre, lots of effort to try and rationalise his actions...

"It's a temptation for him that he wanted to eliminate,"

"he was having a really bad day"

Wonder if it they'd have struck the same sort of tone if a black man shot a series of white women.

Coombs

Here we go again, this time a bit too close to home. Enraging.

KingslandBarge

fucksake, deranged terror attack in Boulder too. Saddening, and infuriating against those that have blood on their hands, their stocks and bank accounts.

Coombs

Boulder is what I meant. That store is 20 miles from my house and 3 from work. My wife got caught in the police traffic trying to come home.

KingslandBarge

Thoughts with you and your community Coombs. Tragic.

Coombs

Released the shooters name. It's Arabic.

For fuck's sake.

arsedocmd

Now the right wing media gets the clicks

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