Gun violence in USA: Page 15 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Gun violence in USA

arsedocmd

Universities getting in on the act now. Shooting at Central Michigan University.

Gurgen

The answer is armed PhD candidates.

arsedocmd

https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2018/3/2/17070662/nra-convention-gun-injury-rates

😆 good trolling.

Klaus

Explain to me again how these people are not classified as a terrorist cell.

flobaba

2nd Amendment Rights baby.

Yeehaw

y va marquer

NRA TV is for the lunatic fringe, "the dumbest, most transparent thing" that the NRA does.
"Armed and Fabulous" and "Love at First Shot" anyone?

Burnwinter

Klaus wrote:
Explain to me again how these people are not classified as a terrorist cell.

Am I right in thinking that "role model athletes" line is the NRA having a go at Colin Kaepernick? Brazen.

Klaus

Yeah, Kaepernick and maybe Lebron, I think. Conservatives have had it in for him too over the last month.

The funniest/most surreal thing about the NRA is how unironically 'progressive' has become a derogatory word used to slate people. It seems to be a common right-wing theme, like when Roy Moore found himself longing for past, great times of slavery and native killings.

Burnwinter

It's slightly eyebrow-raising that the NRA accepts that its Constitutional propaganda strategy, which hinges on intepreting the Second Amendment as a guarantor of America's plural federation, defending against the tyranny of the majority or the state, fits quite naturally hand in glove with the broad spectrum soft white supremacy of All Lives Matter and of concern trolling about Kaepernick and other prominent Black dissidents.

Not only is the NRA's civic argument about the freedom of any imagined group from oppression totally bound up with the material oppression of a specific group, their rhetoric even says as much.

Klaus

Yeah. It's a bit like how the tyranny of the state (which translates to "unreasonable taxation" in the example with the colonial revolution) is the official pretext to own guns, but at the same time they're gladly spending trillions of their tax money on empowering the nation state by building a military force that could dwarf any empire in history. There's a massive gap in logic here.

Like you say, I think a disproportional number of the people who obsess over guns want to own them mainly to protect themselves, not from the invasive state itself but from the perceived idea of black people gaining influence over said state. Maybe it's because some of them feel that they're due a reckoning. There exists a big demography of white Americans who had never been more scared in their entire life than when Obama became president, and their parents were probably equally scared when they saw the civil rights and anti-war movements of the 1960s.

Burnwinter

The Helter Skelter scenario … white paranoia. I think it's morphed and changed into a whole gallery of Infowars enemies, from terrorists, to (antisemitic) New World Order stuff, to Mexicans, Russian bots, "thugs" and "gangs" …

There's a lot of different versions of it. But I think you're right, yeah. There's a sizeable constituency to which things like Trump's "Muslim travel ban" appear as a rational measure.

Mirth

Klaus wrote:
Explain to me again how these people are not classified as a terrorist cell.

This whole segment deals with NRA TV.

Weird as fuck.

Tony Montana

What the video or John Oliver.

Klaus

This is a really interesting twitter thread.

Mirth

While there's a debate to be had on the above twitter thread - it completely muddies the water as much as any other anti-gun control argument. The guy making those twitter posts is obviously not anti-gun control but the only reason people are bothered to make these arguments or propose solutions that will take 50 years (which can happen anyway and not in the backdrop of a mass shooting) is because no one is doing the most obvious thing.

Moreover, it completely ignores how uniquely high the homicide rate is the United States compared to the rest of the world - guns or otherwise:

I haven't lived in America to understand or explain why the numbers are as they are. Are they uniquely more masculine than the rest of the world? Is it because of higher levels of inequality? Or is it just because of poor law enforcement?

Klaus

Mirth wrote:
While there's a debate to be had on the above twitter thread - it completely muddies the water as much as any other anti-gun control argument. The guy making those twitter posts is obviously not anti-gun control but the only reason people are bothered to make these arguments or propose solutions that will take 50 years (which can happen anyway and not in the backdrop of a mass shooting) is because no one is doing the most obvious thing.

I think you're conflating the issues. They're not saying that you need to sort out toxic masculinity in order to sort out gun violence, or that it should be the main focus. They're saying that most gun violence, just like an awful lot of the violence within any social context, has strong ties to our perception of masculinity. It's an issue that I think is well worth discussing (much more so than amateuric misconceptions about what constitutes a mental illness) regardless of whether we're talking school shootings or religiously tinted massacres. There's one trait shared by nearly all perpetrators of mass violence after all, regardless of which society they decide to unleash on.

Mirth

I think you're the one conflating the issue here tbh. The rate of homicide per 100,00 is higher in the United States than Canada, Australia and the UK put together so unless you think toxic masculinity is a US only phenomenon, its not really tackling the subject at hand.

Yes, of course toxic masculinity is a real thing and should be challenged. But the rest of the world - despite being entrenched the same system - finds a way to send their children to school without having to arm teachers.

Klaus

Mirth wrote:
I think you're the one conflating the issue here tbh. The rate of homicide per 100,00 is higher in the United States than Canada, Australia and the UK put together so unless you think toxic masculinity is a US only phenomenon, its not really tackling the subject at hand.

I did not say that, and not only did I not say that - I specified that the study also didn't say that, but if that's still your only takeaway then we might as well end here, because we're not getting further. It's apparently impossible to hold more than one thought at once.

Mirth

It's not about entertaining multiple thoughts, it's about recognising what can be done from a practical perspective and in the quickest time. If you're sitting in a country where gun crime is non-existent then you have a luxury of pondering over societal and cultural reform - as you should - but in a thread about gun violence specifically in the US, it seems like your missing the point.

And I've obviously not ignored your point at all - you've just been selective in what you quote...but hey, whatever makes you fly off the handle.

Klaus

Mirth wrote:
It's not about entertaining multiple thoughts, it's about recognising what can be done from a practical perspective and in the quickest time.

A post is about what I say it is when I make it. This thread says "Gun violence in USA", not "Please only post solutions on how to end gun violence in USA". Everyone knows what needs to be done and how to do it. Thirteen year old kids know what to do. There isn't a person alive - not even in the republican party - who doesn't realise that you reduce gun violence by eliminating public access to guns.

The tweet I posted is a connected issue to school shootings since it concerns some of the underpinnings of these acts of violence, and I found it relevant to discuss. You don't have to agree, but there's no need to misrepresent either what the research suggested or my intention with linking to it.

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