Gun violence in USA: Page 12 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Gun violence in USA

Coombs

I think you underestimate the level of ignorance, delusion, and malice. A few percent of nothing is still nothing. These are people voting directly against their own interests for spite. Whatever benefits of White privilege at that level are irrelevant in the face of poverty, sickness, addiction, and death. Middle class white people with big 'ol mortgages aren't rolling into Brooklyn, North Philly, Rino, etc. wearing MAGA hats.

Burnwinter

There's a lot of data to suggest Trump's constituency is built on perceptions of "relative downward mobility" of white people among their economic peers.

I don't regard this article as particularly amazing, but it's one among many saying roughly the same thing: the popular "Hillbilly Elegy" narrative of the economic anxiety of extremely poor white Americans, or Rust Belters, widely promoted by the press, played out as the racism and xenophobia of a wealthier bracket of Americans in practice.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/5/9/15592634/trump-clinton-racism-economy-prri-survey

That survey also found that Trump supporters are actually richer, not poorer, than average, although they tended to be blue-collar and less educated. Trump supporters also tended to live in racially segregated areas, particularly those that were not especially hard hit by trade or immigration. As for their socioeconomic struggles, they weren’t about income inequality, but rather relatively high mortality rates and worse intergenerational mobility. All in all, this suggested that something else — not typical economic hardship — was behind Trump’s rise.

Trump's swing voters were racists voting for his racism. Yeah, they're malicious and deluded, but they're not voting against their own interests in the manner you describe.

Tony Montana

goon wrote:
It really is a mental place. I still cannot fathom how 60m people thought it’s a good idea to vote for the republicans.

Lots of voters are traditional republicans or democrats so will vote for their party regardless of the president-to-be out of loyalty and political beliefs.

I met an American southerner at work (who has lived in Eastern Europe for years though) who said that he's a conservative with a small c, a liberal. He tended to vote Republican or maybe independent depending on the candidate but very begrudgingly voted Hilary in 2016 because Trump was so abhorrent. If it's that difficult for a well travelled, highly educated, well-informed, liberal bloke then how difficult is it for most other Republicans to just switch?

Gurgen

What the actual fuck 😆

Klaus

😆

I see your Donald Trump and I raise you a Wayne LaPierre:

Gurgen

This has now reached levels of insanity that cannot be explained by culture, history, money or any other concept fit for human comprehension. They are in all seriousness encouraging shoot outs in schools.

MistaT

I'm dumbfounded.

The thoughts of armed teachers is sickening.

y va marquer

It would probably be only a matter of time before a teacher turned a gun on students - that would be seen as a "mental health issue" too I would guess, as opposed to a bloody illustration of the insanity of thinking that armed teachers are a solution to the threat of mass shootings in schools.

y va marquer

I never said “give teachers guns” like was stated on Fake News @CNN & @NBC. What I said was to look at the possibility of giving “concealed guns to gun adept teachers with military or special training experience - only the best. 20% of teachers, a lot, would now be able to.......

....immediately fire back if a savage sicko came to a school with bad intentions. Highly trained teachers would also serve as a deterrent to the cowards that do this. Far more assets at much less cost than guards. A “gun free” school is a magnet for bad people. ATTACKS WOULD END!

Guess who?

y va marquer

What many people don’t understand, or don’t want to understand, is that Wayne, Chris and the folks who work so hard at the @NRA are Great People and Great American Patriots. They love our Country and will do the right thing. MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!

And then he went on to congratulate the Olympic gold winning women's ice hockey team.

Mirth

y va marquer wrote:

I never said “give teachers guns” like was stated on Fake News @CNN & @NBC. What I said was to look at the possibility of giving “concealed guns to gun adept teachers with military or special training experience - only the best. 20% of teachers, a lot, would now be able to.......

....immediately fire back if a savage sicko came to a school with bad intentions. Highly trained teachers would also serve as a deterrent to the cowards that do this. Far more assets at much less cost than guards. A “gun free” school is a magnet for bad people. ATTACKS WOULD END!

Guess who?

This has to be the fastest he's contradicted himself.

But seriously, this is dark stuff - I feel sorry for the majority of the country that are actually in favour of more gun control.

y va marquer

It's darker than dark, vantablack.
It upsets me profoundly because my brother and his family live there, and that whole gun culture depresses the life out of him.

Coombs

Burnwinter wrote:
Trump's swing voters were racists voting for his racism. Yeah, they're malicious and deluded, but they're not voting against their own interests in the manner you describe.

We're talking about a different set of people, I think. I agree with your point generally, but I'm saying there are also millions of Trump voters in the most dire of circumstances who are voting out of racism and spite against their own interests. There are certainly also the folks who feel like the country is going to hell because the Puerto Rican family down the street just bought a new SUV.

Klaus

Burnwinter wrote:
the popular "Hillbilly Elegy" narrative of the economic anxiety of extremely poor white Americans, or Rust Belters, widely promoted by the press, played out as the racism and xenophobia of a wealthier bracket of Americans in practice.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/5/9/15592634/trump-clinton-racism-economy-prri-survey

That survey also found that Trump supporters are actually richer, not poorer, than average, although they tended to be blue-collar and less educated. Trump supporters also tended to live in racially segregated areas, particularly those that were not especially hard hit by trade or immigration. As for their socioeconomic struggles, they weren’t about income inequality, but rather relatively high mortality rates and worse intergenerational mobility. All in all, this suggested that something else — not typical economic hardship — was behind Trump’s rise.

Same phenomenon as in France during the last election, where the voting maps showed that a huge chunk of Le Pen's voters actually lived in the areas with least immigrants and had the highest income. The entire riviera is just one big swamp of right-wing extremism.

It's almost as if classism and excessive materialism breeds monsters free of empathy. Who would have thought.

y va marquer

Klaus wrote:
Burnwinter wrote:
the popular "Hillbilly Elegy" narrative of the economic anxiety of extremely poor white Americans, or Rust Belters, widely promoted by the press, played out as the racism and xenophobia of a wealthier bracket of Americans in practice.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/5/9/15592634/trump-clinton-racism-economy-prri-survey

Same phenomenon as in France during the last election, where the voting maps showed that a huge chunk of Le Pen's voters actually lived in the areas with least immigrants and had the highest income. The entire riviera is just one big swamp of right-wing extremism.

It's almost as if classism and excessive materialism breeds monsters free of empathy. Who would have thought.

Are you sure about that?

Le Pen’s strongest performances came almost exclusively in areas with low education. Across the whole country, she did not beat Macron in a commune in which more than 39.7 per cent of people had a university degree.

While Macron performed better than Le Pen in communes with higher average incomes, he was also able to win votes in lower income areas. The lowest median income in a commune where Mr Macron won was, perhaps surprisingly, lower than the equivalent figure for Le Pen: €11,761 vs €13,022.
No commune with a median income of over €33,106 cast more than 50 per cent of its votes for Ms Le Pen.

A similar pattern emerged with blue-collar workers — a demographic expected to turn out disproportionately for Le Pen. She was only able to win in communes where at least 14.7 per cent of workers hold blue-collar jobs, and fared much better than Macron in communes where large proportions of the labour force are in unskilled roles.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/62d782d6-31a7-11e7-9555-23ef563ecf9a

Mirth

Can you (and this is directed to Klaus as well) compare two countries with very different electoral systems? There's a lot less choice in the US based on who you vote for and being Republican or Democrat is a part of self identity.

flobaba

He is seriously going to push for guns in schools.

y va marquer

Mirth wrote:
Can you (and this is directed to Klaus as well) compare two countries with very different electoral systems? There's a lot less choice in the US based on who you vote for and being Republican or Democrat is a part of self identity.

I think France is the last European country that I would compare to the US if I were to look for clear parallels between groups of voters.

y va marquer

flobaba wrote:
He is seriously going to push for guns in schools.

y va marquer

"General Kelly is the history teacher, he's teaching about how we win wars, ok, and he's got a concealed weapon, but they're gonna know he's got a concealed weapon because we tell them that bullets are going to be flying the other way."

Jesus wept, he's beyond moronic.

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