Tony Montana wrote:

We're attacking each other.

He's tearing us apart Tony.

Fastest premier league goal this season for Lukaku

Ultimately we can't keep teams out, regardless of whether the opposition is Bournemouth, Watford or then Chelsea.

No point of blaming a player that has been scoring goals for us when we were struggling for the same.

Shady wrote:

flobaba wrote:

  I love you TM

OMITT's very own Forrest Gump.

Come on man.

Wenger isn't signing an extension because I think we will struggle with finishing in the top 4 this time around.

I can't wait for the day when I am not nervous about the opposition scoring against us with every attack.

Qwiss! wrote:

Tony Montana wrote:

We're attacking each other.

He's tearing us apart Tony.

Yep.

Genuinely can't wait until end of season to see what the club does.

I fear nothing will change. I expect Wenger to announce his new contract soon enough.

Wenger's not responsible for how people behave towards each other on here.
If people choose to lash out and get caught up in petty stuff, because we got absolutely schooled by Chelsea, that's their issue not Wenger's.

This is what Wenger has reduced us to

They stressing my heart got my hairline receding

Could've had the best striker in the land
but Wenger paid one pound

y va marquer wrote:

Wenger's not responsible for how people behave towards each other on here.
If people choose to lash out and get caught up in petty stuff, because we got absolutely schooled by Chelsea, that's their issue not Wenger's.

Yeah OK fair enough.

But I feel we let off steam and we need someone to blame.

Worse thing about these results is that is shows you having too supposed top players doesn't really matter for us. We lack the organisation that is required now to get those top players to shine in big games. Wenger still believes in the collective intelligence of his players / teams to make the right decisions and it simply isn't happening. He isn't going to start drilling players so I can't see a way forward for him.

Our fans were fighting amongst each other in the stands last season so nothing new here. You'd like to think people can mature enough and put their emotions to one side without behaving like school kids.

Glad we got schooled - no more false hope. Now time to go into hibernation and check the table in May to see if we are top 4 or not and if Wenger will put us through more torture.

General wrote:

You'd like to think people can mature enough and put their emotions to one side without behaving like school kids.

Fans are emotionally invested and drunk half the time too, they're not the issue here. What is is the man who's leading this club, he's the reason the fanbase is torn apart and still doesn't want to leave.

He wont leave , he will have to be sacked. That pay is way too good to let go

Kroenke has shown no care for supremity in his other sports club so I won't expect it here. He's happy to just be in the game. no issue from them as to Wenger is ever able to get a title as long as he is keeping the club mildly relevant at the top.

evoh_1 wrote:

Kroenke has shown no care for supremity in his other sports club so I won't expect it here. He's happy to just be in the game.

Not the first time I read about it but that's pretty fucking incredible if you think about it. This bloke loves owning clubs and franchises and doing exactly fuck all with them. Why would anyone do that, in sports you don't know shit about to boot?

jones wrote:

This is what Wenger has reduced us to

They stressing my heart got my hairline receding

Could've had the best striker in the land
but Wenger paid one pound

Wtf was that tripe? That "rapping", oh my days. That was painful to listen to. So cringe.

jones wrote:

evoh_1 wrote:

Kroenke has shown no care for supremity in his other sports club so I won't expect it here. He's happy to just be in the game.

Not the first time I read about it but that's pretty fucking incredible if you think about it. This bloke loves owning clubs and franchises and doing exactly fuck all with them. Why would anyone do that, in sports you don't know shit about to boot?

It's definitely true jones. It took an awful season to fire Jeff "Commander 7-9" Fisher from the LA Rams. Fisher is now tied for the most losses in NFL history!  

I heard the same thing from the LA Rams fans as Arsenal fans. Outdated tactics and coaching and the PR got infinitely worse when Fisher secretly signed his contract extension in 2016. LA fans only care about winning (other than Lakers) and that was reflected in the attendance. Now there's competition from another NFL team that moved to LA too.

Bryant wrote:

jones wrote:

Not the first time I read about it but that's pretty fucking incredible if you think about it. This bloke loves owning clubs and franchises and doing exactly fuck all with them. Why would anyone do that, in sports you don't know shit about to boot?

It's definitely true jones. It took an awful season to fire Jeff "Commander 7-9" Fisher from the LA Rams. Fisher is now tied for the most losses in NFL history!  

I heard the same thing from the LA Rams fans as Arsenal fans. Outdated tactics and coaching and the PR got infinitely worse when Fisher secretly signed his contract extension in 2016. LA fans only care about winning (other than Lakers) and that was reflected in the attendance. Now there's competition from another NFL team that moved to LA too.

Genuinely don't have a single clue what he's doing. What worth does a sports "empire" have when all your teams suck? There's more money in other businesses anyway and it's not like he has a sports background or an ulterior motive like Abramovich

He's also instated his McDonalds eating Harry Potter reading son in our board. Why would you do that?

Kroenke's share are growing in value. Massive pay day if he ever decides to sell up.

Need to be physically stronger, can't be having our players flattened as Bellerin was

The first goal once again exposed some of Coquelin's shortfalls. I know I've singled him out lately and he did go on to have a decent game but he was the most culpable together with Walcott. They left Bellerin to mark Costa for the initial header and then he had to get back to challenge Alonso, all the while Walcott and Coquelin were casually strolling behind. At no point did they sense danger behind them because this alertness hasn't been drilled into them. It was absolutely insane considering the score was 0-0. Even if Bellerin had won the header, Hazard was left free in the box to capitalise. It all started because Coquelin had gone and given the ball away cheaply in the centre. Let's not get mistaken, there is a significant gap in quality between Kante and Coquelin and it goes beyond stats. Kante single handedly shapes the defensive pattern of Chelsea. Once the game opened up, we were up against it.

y va marquer wrote:

Need to be physically stronger, can't be having our players flattened as Bellerin was

I agree with the general point that we need to be physically stronger, but I don't think that's a very good example. That kind of situation is more down to positioning and momentum, given that both players have eyes on the ball. I've seen big guys get flattened in similar situations.

People are completely missing the context of Bellerin's failure to prevent Alonso getting to the end of that header. He was already on the back foot because he had challenged Costa for the initial header that came off the bar. Alonso was Walcott's man and Coquelin was close by. Neither helped.

jones wrote:

Bryant wrote:

It's definitely true jones. It took an awful season to fire Jeff "Commander 7-9" Fisher from the LA Rams. Fisher is now tied for the most losses in NFL history!  

I heard the same thing from the LA Rams fans as Arsenal fans. Outdated tactics and coaching and the PR got infinitely worse when Fisher secretly signed his contract extension in 2016. LA fans only care about winning (other than Lakers) and that was reflected in the attendance. Now there's competition from another NFL team that moved to LA too.

Genuinely don't have a single clue what he's doing. What worth does a sports "empire" have when all your teams suck? There's more money in other businesses anyway and it's not like he has a sports background or an ulterior motive like Abramovich

He's also instated his McDonalds eating Harry Potter reading son in our board. Why would you do that?

In the US he not only owns the teams, but also the property and broadcasting associated with the franchises - it's a complete package as opposed to just being the clubs.
His empire is akin to AFC's involvement in the CL = we turn up and take the money with no real intent to do otherwise.  Further to this the 'real' money is in the Group Stage unless you make it all the way.
AFC is the ultimate justification of self funding as the value/revenues increase whilst able to do nothing and generating profit.

General wrote:

People are completely missing the context of Bellerin's failure to prevent Alonso getting to the end of that header. He was already on the back foot because he had challenged Costa for the initial header that came off the bar. Alonso was Walcott's man and Coquelin was close by. Neither helped.

This. 
As with many things it's often not the failing of the final action, but those preceding it.

For Deeney's goal v Watford I was pissed at Kos who was his marker, who then decided to leave Deeney to take position in the vacant goal,
leaving Deeney free in the area to receive the ball and get his shot off unchallenged.

Hazard's goal reminded me of the early play after the botched throw in (I blame Rambo more than Gab),
with the players like Rambo & Co standing off and allowing the player on the ball to run and not looking to stop them until the got into the final 3rd.
I do not recall the last time I saw an AFC player get beaten and then chase back to get goal side and in position to challenge.  Our play indicates that we just jog behind to stay available to receive the ball and expect the player facing the ball to win possession - but they don't.

I understand the argument that Alonso had his arm up re leverage & had his eye on the ball etc,
but my question is why go in leading with the nearside arm up = if there is going to be any contact or leverage it will be on the opposing player.
I understand there is no intent but IMO it is still reckless / dangerous play as a result of the contact with the head - just as any overhead kick / foot up action.
From another perspective it can also raise the question that the arm braced above the shoulder is also impeding the defender from being able to physically challenge the ball in the air.
Lastly the way Bellerin went down indicates that he was effectively blindsided by the contact, which to me again goes to reckless play.

Don't get me wrong - no contract by the arm as the initial point, or if it is shoulder to shoulder then the contact is not reckless or dangerous by it's outcome.

I was also disappointed by the lack of response by AFC players both re the incident, let alone the play following. I'm not talking about retaliation but I would have expected to see a blow up akin to the incident that saw the shoving match between AW & Maureen following Cahill's late tackle on Sanchez (which should have seen Cahill sent off), let alone the players hardening up and winning the 40/60 balls etc.

Anzac wrote:

Our play indicates that we just jog behind to stay available to receive the ball and expect the player facing the ball to win possession - but they don't.

Good observation Anzac and it's a regular occurrence throughout the team. The player facing the attack is often expected to deal with the threat on his own whiles the surrounding players turn into curious bystanders readying themselves to return back up the pitch. It's as if to say we are here, shout if you need us, but we are ready to go on the attack. It is one of the fundamental reasons why we never look compact as a unit when we don't have the ball as players conveniently turn into statues instead of taking up good defensive positions to help stem an attack. Coquelin also failed in some his primary duties today and it directly led to the first two goals. He bounced off Hazard as if he's been thrown onto a concrete deck and physically looked out of his depth against a more robust Chelsea midfield. Chelsea just wanted this more. They were consistently on their toes and played with greater determination. Sanchez also had a poor game and something seemed off with his ball control and footwear.

Anzac wrote:

I was also disappointed by the lack of response by AFC players both re the incident, let alone the play following.  I'm not talking about retaliation but I would have expected to see a blow up akin to the incident that saw the shoving match between AW & Maureen following Cahill's late tackle on Sanchez (which should have seen Cahill sent off), let alone the players hardening up and winning the 40/60 balls etc.

I think Gabriek might have slyly put one on Hazard and I absolutely loved the robust tackle by Ox on Willian by the byline.

I keep thinking about the brawl at OT when we were docked points - those players responded & stood up to a man as a team rather than as isolated individuals.

General wrote:

Anzac wrote:

Our play indicates that we just jog behind to stay available to receive the ball and expect the player facing the ball to win possession - but they don't.

Good observation Anzac and it's a regular occurrence throughout the team. The player facing the attack is often expected to deal with the threat on his own whiles the surrounding players turn into curious bystanders readying themselves to return back up the pitch. It's as if to say we are here, shout if you need us, but we are ready to go on the attack. It is one of the fundamental reasons why we never look compact as a unit when we don't have the ball as players conveniently turn into statues instead of taking up good defensive positions to help stem an attack.  Coquelin also failed in some his primary duties today and it directly led to the first two goals. He bounced off Hazard as if he's been thrown onto a concrete deck and physically looked out of his depth against a more robust Chelsea midfield. Chelsea just wanted this more. They were consistently on their toes and played with greater determination. Sanchez also had a poor game and something seemed off with his ball control and footwear.

It's been the same issue for years under AW. 

It's almost as if he's fallen into believing the criticisms about the number of fouls we used to concede in The Highbury Years, and we're now too concerned to tackle.  The alternative is we leave the defence exposed so they look to stand off until support arrives, and don't look to put their foot in until around the area.  Even then there are too many poor decisions made & I've posted before about how poor Kos decision making is around the area.

I remember Diaby doing so in an evening game v CFC where Drogba scored 2x.  We lost possession trying to thread the ball into their area (Fabregas to Song), and Diaby jogged back behind the CFC counter and even slowed down when Lampard(??) slowed down on the edge of our area to feed the ball to Drogba to score his 2nd.  IIRC the 1st goal was a corner where Drogba had been standing off the far post and as the kick was taken he pushed off his 'marker' and went forward and was unchallenged to score with a free header.

Ironically the only player I can remember showing the will and the fight to get back to challenge (before Sanchez) was Bendtner - both in the game he tore his groin and was then out for 3 months, and another H v Sunderland(??) that ended in a scoreless draw where he chased back and passed the midfield (Diaby/Song) to put in a ball winning tackle on the edge of the area.

The defensive work for Hazard's goal was no better than for Deeney's mid week.  I refuse to believe that the players are actually coached how to defend.

General wrote:

People are completely missing the context of Bellerin's failure to prevent Alonso getting to the end of that header. He was already on the back foot because he had challenged Costa for the initial header that came off the bar. Alonso was Walcott's man and Coquelin was close by. Neither helped.

People are completely missing the point that that's a horrible foul and an elbow to the face is a red card everywhere except Ingerland. So sick of this bullshit league.

Gurgen wrote:

General wrote:

People are completely missing the context of Bellerin's failure to prevent Alonso getting to the end of that header. He was already on the back foot because he had challenged Costa for the initial header that came off the bar. Alonso was Walcott's man and Coquelin was close by. Neither helped.

People are completely missing the point that that's a horrible foul and an elbow to the face is a red card everywhere except Ingerland.

Exactly, and that shit decision changed the entire course of the game too.

I've seen comments made in the press that football is a contact sport and that Alonso did little more than attack the ball with more determination.
However other contact sports have taken the intent out of the equation in determining illegal / foul play, particularly where player safety is involved. Rugby League penalises head contact but has degrees of penalty, and still accepts that there may be no intent and the contact may have bounced off the ball or that the player may have ducked into the tackle intended for the chest, as the actual target is to gain possession of the ball. Rugby Union has taken it further to outlaw anything above the shoulder regardless of intent, bouncing off the ball or ducking into the tackle, by simply putting player safety above any question of intent or technique. I also like Rugby Union's use of the sin bin in addition to yellow and red cards, and again in regards to player safety or persistent fouling.

IMO the incident is no different in principle to the question regarding a high foot in a tackle or even an overhead kick so far as the potential for injury to the head.

Gurgen wrote:

General wrote:

People are completely missing the context of Bellerin's failure to prevent Alonso getting to the end of that header. He was already on the back foot because he had challenged Costa for the initial header that came off the bar. Alonso was Walcott's man and Coquelin was close by. Neither helped.

People are completely missing the point that that's a horrible foul and an elbow to the face is a red card everywhere except Ingerland. So sick of this bullshit league.

Apparently Bellerin was subbed off because he couldn't tell the physios what the score was. And still even after the fifth replay of a clear elbow to the face the dickhead commentators thought there was nothing wrong with the challenge

I don't think Alonso expects Bellerins face to be at the height it was so I wouldn't call it a red card but it was definitely a free. If the ball hadn't hit the back of the net I've no doubt the ref would have blown for it.