Let's talk about China: Page 2 - The Arsenal discussion community: One More in the Tolly

Let's talk about China

Claudius

The Chinese government positions is comforting.

It reminds me of City and Chelsea a bit though. 15 years ago, both were completely pointless, one a yo-yo club playing in the shadow of United. Tons of money was poured into both, and now they are sustainable entities. Of course, the UK TV deal goes a long way in that regard.

China knows that you cannot become a serious league with the gradual approach. MLS has been doing it for 20 years and it's still an irrelevant competition. So you need to go with the big bang approach. Maybe they can apply some learnings from MLS - e.g, having a few designated players (but a bigger number, like 5 or 6).

I think it would be great for the world to get an alternative to European domination. It just has to be done in a tasteful, sustainable way, and not crash and burn like the North American Soccer League.

Clrnc

The chinese is not someone you would want to dominate in any industry. Think the world will learn about it in the upcoming years.

Claudius

tell us why please

Bold Tone

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2892/transfer-zone/2017/01/11/31397862/chinas-message-to-premier-league-hypocrites-oscar-tevez

Claudius

Articles raises great points. Long, but worthwhile. I hope they get the model right and quickly have a sustainable league. They can immediately impose a 10-15 million pound maximum player salary and still draw a lot of superb European players. More power to them

Claudius

I was just reading an article on CNN discussing whether Beckham revolutionised US football.

One question I have to all of you is why do we view Beckham and Lampard going to the USA positively, but we are sickened by players going to China?

goon

It's different because they went in the twilight of their careers not during their peak, they didn't sacrifice anything.

Sickened is a strong word though, it's all relative. I'm pretty indifferent about it on a personal level, I just don't consider Oscar a serious footballer anymore, he may as well have retired and become a City fat cat.

Bold Tone

Oscar seems to think the complete opposite ...

"Sui Guoyang stressed that Oscar’s burning desire to return to the Brazil national team played just as much a part in his decision to head to China as did his £400,000-a-week wages. His compatriot Paulinho, who also received plenty of brickbats himself upon joining Guangzhou Evergrande from Tottenham Hotspur in 2015, earned a recall to the Brazil fold after reviving his career in China. Beijing Guoan midfielder Renato Augusto has also become a permanent fixture in the Selecao line-up since arriving in China. Oscar will surely attempt to replicate this."

USArsenal

goon wrote:
It's different because they went in the twilight of their careers not during their peak, they didn't sacrifice anything.

This... plus they also didnt go there for a huge payday, since lets be honest, MLS isnt paying even a fraction of what China is paying (even for the high profile designated players).

Claudius

So it's only okay to play outside football's epicentre once you're old and grey, and not a moment before?
and you guys argue that they didn't go to MLS for a huge payday. you guys please tell me, which European clubs would pay the _5m pound salaries (100k/week) that messrs Gerrard, Lampard and Kaka earned in America at their advanced ages?
all three men sought a payday in America including both salary and increasing their commercial presence in that country.

let's not judge China differently just because they have had to pay significantly higher salaries just to be in the conversation. isn't this exactly what City did when it took 4 of our players? the levels they paid were just discounted by the fact that they were in the same league as us.

jones

USArsenal wrote:
goon wrote:
It's different because they went in the twilight of their careers not during their peak, they didn't sacrifice anything.

This... plus they also didnt go there for a huge payday, since lets be honest, MLS isnt paying even a fraction of what China is paying (even for the high profile designated players).

Beckham at Galaxy was on silly money, pretty sure it made big headlines back then. Regardless, of course these players went and go to the US because of a huge payday, none of Pirlo Villa etc would've gotten in Europe anywhere near what they earn now. It's standard for players nearing retirement with very few notable exceptions like van Bommel at PSV or Gio at Feyenoord. Also it should be noted that the US did what the Chinese are doing now back in the 70s already with Pele Beckenbauer etc

I'm with Claude, more power to the Chinese. The article is very onesided but it does raise a couple of good points. What the Chinese clubs are doing isn't all that different to even what top clubs are doing when they snatch the best African and Latino talents; it's not just the "call to play the best in the world" that lures them, that Western paycheck plays a big role as well.

Clrnc

Claudius wrote:
tell us why please

The Chinese don't follow the rules, don't do things the right way and generally don't listen to anyone. The like to use their own ways to power through and get their means, and in football case using connections and money. They have already swallowed 2 of Taiwan's and Hong Kong's most lucrative industry using monetary means to buy all their talents across because of political reasons.

There's generally a pattern to their superstar signings if you realised. So far we haven't seen any Top European players going there, it's always the South American players and their agents have some sort of relations with the Chinese background figures.

Bold Tone

Slippery slope argument.

Gurgen

Meh. The world of football transfers is basically organised crime, so it's probably not far from the truth.

Claudius

Several media outlets suggesting that Costa will not play against Leicester today because, like Payet, he has gone on strike. A Chinese club has allegedly offered him 30m pounds a season, and Chelsea 80m pounds for the transfer. Hes' a Jorge Mendes client. This could be the big one! I hope it happens, but of course, we know where that 80m pounds would go next 😆

Klaus

Aye, say goodbye to Alexis if this happens.

Gurgen

Claudius wrote:
So it's only okay to play outside football's epicentre once you're old and grey, and not a moment before?
and you guys argue that they didn't go to MLS for a huge payday. you guys please tell me, which European clubs would pay the _5m pound salaries (100k/week) that messrs Gerrard, Lampard and Kaka earned in America at their advanced ages?
all three men sought a payday in America including both salary and increasing their commercial presence in that country.

let's not judge China differently just because they have had to pay significantly higher salaries just to be in the conversation. isn't this exactly what City did when it took 4 of our players? the levels they paid were just discounted by the fact that they were in the same league as us.

The difference is the MLS isn't fixed by Macao gambling syndicates.

goon

Claudius wrote:
So it's only okay to play outside football's epicentre once you're old and grey, and not a moment before?
and you guys argue that they didn't go to MLS for a huge payday. you guys please tell me, which European clubs would pay the _5m pound salaries (100k/week) that messrs Gerrard, Lampard and Kaka earned in America at their advanced ages?
all three men sought a payday in America including both salary and increasing their commercial presence in that country.

let's not judge China differently just because they have had to pay significantly higher salaries just to be in the conversation. isn't this exactly what City did when it took 4 of our players? the levels they paid were just discounted by the fact that they were in the same league as us.

Of course they moved for the money and perhaps the location but that's not the point. They did it once their careers were effectively over. No one took Beckham seriously after he moved to the MLS either but by then he's already had a long career at the highest level with two of the biggest clubs around.

Fans care about football, they don't give two shits about Oscar's personal wealth so of course they'll view the move negatively when he chooses the latter over the former as he's heading into the prime of his career.

goon

Relevant - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/38636082

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