Ozil contract talks: Page 70 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Ozil contract talks

Clrnc

Ricky1985 wrote:
And if you want to support the winners you need to support a club that will break every rule, at every level, to sign the best players from little kids that score a hattrick through to dodgy deals in Doha for Neymar Jr. for £200m. Arsenal don't play those games, not anything like the others do anyway.

Football is the pits and I genuinely dont like what it has become but I can't turn off the love for Arsenal and to a lesser extent the sport in general.

I'm more excited by academy kids showing what they can do it and making it through to the first team than I am by most of the rest of the bullshit that surrounds supporting a top club.

When the competition starts and the battle is on, I still can't help but want Arsenal to beat the life out of everyone else though... badly too. Not sure that's ever going to change.

That's the sad truth isn't it. The thing is, 13 years ago everything was looking on the up. Built one of the most fearsome teams, have a new stadium coming up and teams go into games fearing us. Can't help but think the night in Paris was the turning point. Had we become European champions we would have built on it.

y va marquer

Tony Montana wrote:
y va marquer wrote:
"only a dedicated glue sniffer thought he would hang around" - well at the time, on this here forum, nobody believed he would leave that summer, right up until a week before he left.

Applying superficial wisdom years after the fact is either misrepresenting or shows a lack of understanding / knowledge of the thoughts and beliefs of fans at the time Cesc left.
The climate and mood were nowhere as cynical, weary and resigned as now.

It's true that the days of players being loyal to clubs, to the team, are well gone. Player dealing is a greedy grubby business and the sport is the worse for it.
Basically if you want to support a winning team you have to pick one that will drop £150 or so in any summer transfer window, one willing and able to hoover up talent available.
That's not us and I can't see that it ever will be under current ownership and management

Kroenke has no qualms spending millions and millions on the LA Rams.

With Arsenal and Arsene he takes it easy.

Doesn't matter what he does with LA Rams does it?
His policy with Arsenal clearly, blatantly, obviously does not involve going toe to toe with City, Chelsea, United in terms of spending.

Ray

We pretty much spent the same amount as Chelsea did last summer.

DiabyKungFu

Ray wrote:
We pretty much spent the same amount as Chelsea did last summer.

We have for a little while now. There's a reason Abramovich was the biggest champion for FFP by all accounts. Chelsea have done better than us recently because they've done more intelligent business.

y va marquer

speedy wrote:
y va marquer wrote:
"only a dedicated glue sniffer thought he would hang around" - well at the time, on this here forum, nobody believed he would leave that summer, right up until a week before he left.

Applying superficial wisdom years after the fact is either misrepresenting or shows a lack of understanding / knowledge of the thoughts and beliefs of fans at the time Cesc left.
The climate and mood were nowhere as cynical, weary and resigned as now.

It's true that the days of players being loyal to clubs, to the team, are well gone. Player dealing is a greedy grubby business and the sport is the worse for it.
Basically if you want to support a winning team you have to pick one that will drop £150 or so in any summer transfer window, one willing and able to hoover up talent available.
That's not us and I can't see that it ever will be under current ownership and management

I think people didn't want to believe, but if you had asked fans of other clubs will cesc go back to barca i think most probably would have guessed that he would. It was the worst kept secret in football. Our fans were so mad at barca for being so obvious bout it. It was rubbed in our faces. So we should have seen it coming.

You said "only a dedicated glue sniffer thought he would hang around" now it's "people didn't want to believe" either way you're assuming that the mood and atmosphere surrounding the club back then was equivalent to what we have now, and that people should not have been surprised that Cesc would be sold - that was not the case. Cesc was the first big shock sale under Wenger, there was no precedent in terms of selling a player who was seen as key to the future of team and it's prospects.

y va marquer

Ray wrote:
We pretty much spent the same amount as Chelsea did last summer.

One summer's spend in how many where they out spent us by nose bleed amounts?
The previous summer they spent 6 times what we did.
That was the summer we spent £10m

City and United have blown us out of the water in terms of spend for years.

If you're an Arsenal fan you have to deal with that reality, I'm not sure why asserting that it's not true is a thing.
Saying it's a fact is not a defence of anyone or an excuse, it's just pointing out that we are not competing with the likes of City, United or Chelsea in terms of what we spend in today's market.

DiabyKungFu

y va marquer wrote:
Ray wrote:
We pretty much spent the same amount as Chelsea did last summer.

If you're an Arsenal fan you have to deal with that reality

The reality is that Chelsea haven't been big spenders for about 4 years now.

http://www.transferleague.co.uk/chelsea/english-football-teams/chelsea-transfers

Ray

y va marquer wrote:
Ray wrote:
We pretty much spent the same amount as Chelsea did last summer.

One summer's spend in how many where they out spent us by nose bleed amounts?
The previous summer they spent 6 times what we did.
That was the summer we spent £10m

City and United have blown us out of the water in terms of spend for years.

If you're an Arsenal fan you have to deal with that reality, I'm not sure why asserting that it's not true is a thing.
Saying it's a fact is not a defence of anyone or an excuse, it's just pointing out that we are not competing with the likes of City, United or Chelsea in terms of what we spend in today's market.

The summer we spent 10m was our own fault, it wasn't like we didn't have the money, and they spent 60m which isn't really an obscene amount. Other than that summer we have pretty much spent similar amounts as Chelsea in the last 3-4 seasons. The reality is they have just walked away with their second title in three years, whilst we have two FA cups to show for it.

y va marquer

That's not the reality.
We had years of selling our best players and neglecting building on the quality of our squad whilst Chelsea invested massively - one season (last) when we spent £84m to their £85m does not put us on a par.

Again I'm not interested in debating this in terms of fault, blame justifications.

I genuinely cannot understand why it's not obvious to Arsenal fans that regardless of how much money we actually have we are not competing with Chelsea, City or United this transfer season.

Ray

That is the reality.

It's not one season. Our starting 11 and Chelsea's right now is mainly made up of players signed in the last 3 seasons so that's where I am putting the reference point regarding spending.

We may not be competing with Utd and City (that would be obvious) but Chelsea have been extremely efficient the last few seasons.

Clrnc

Diaby KungFu wrote:
y va marquer wrote:
If you're an Arsenal fan you have to deal with that reality

The reality is that Chelsea haven't been big spenders for about 4 years now.

http://www.transferleague.co.uk/chelsea/english-football-teams/chelsea-transfers

That's surprising, never really realised that to be honest.

They are extremely efficient on the transfer front, especially outgoing fees.

y va marquer

Are you, Ray, debating the fact that Chelsea have outspent us over the past three seasons?
It's an actual fact, give or take a couple of million they have outspent us by £70m.

Whether or not Chelsea have been "extremely efficient" is a completely seperate point.

It is incorrect to say that the Chelsea starting 11 right now is made up of players signed over the last 3 seasons given that Hazard (arguably their best player) was signed in 2012.
You could argue that without Hazard Chelsea would not have won those titles in 2015 and 2017.

y va marquer

For the record so far this window:

Arsenal £52m
Chelsea £119m

That's even before you consider the £150 or so that United have spent and £200m that City have invested.

DiabyKungFu

y va marquer wrote:
For the record so far this window:

Arsenal £52m
Chelsea £119m

Rex

There are several players Chelsea has sold where the fees look dodgy as fuck IMO. That obviously skews figures by quite a lot. I also, on an ideological level, totally disagree with the practice Chelsea went with a few years ago where they just hoover up a shit load of talented young kids, immediately loan them out, spend almost no time actually trying to develop them themselves, and mainly do this to make a buck. For the record, that practice started way before three years ago, and they are still reaping the benefits from that.

y va marquer

Diaby KungFu wrote:
y va marquer wrote:
For the record so far this window:

Arsenal £52m
Chelsea £119m

Just going to save myself some time by repeating myself.

It's an actual fact, give or take a couple of million that Chelsea have outspent us by £70m overy the past 3 windows.
Money spent = new players, additions to the squad, investment in strengthening.

If you're an Arsenal fan you have to deal with reality, I'm not sure why asserting that it's not true is a thing.
Saying it's a fact that we don't invest as heavily as other top teams is not a defence of anyone or an excuse, it's just pointing out that we are not competing with the likes of City, United or Chelsea in terms of what we spend in today's market.

Rex

Of course we are not.

Qwiss

It takes alot of twisting things around to claim we are spending the same amount as Chelsea, United, City, etc

The real question needs to be why are we not spending closer to the amounts our rivals are.

Ray

y va marquer wrote:
Are you, Ray, debating the fact that Chelsea have outspent us over the past three seasons?
It's an actual fact, give or take a couple of million they have outspent us by £70m.

Whether or not Chelsea have been "extremely efficient" is a completely seperate point.

It is incorrect to say that the Chelsea starting 11 right now is made up of players signed over the last 3 seasons given that Hazard (arguably their best player) was signed in 2012.
You could argue that without Hazard Chelsea would not have won those titles in 2015 and 2017.

That rough figure of 70m comes mainly down to the 15/16 season where we spent 10m compared to their 60m, as I mentioned. This wasn't down to Kroenke not providing funds as Gazidis and Wenger said the money was there, it was due to Wenger not buying for whatever reasons.

Your argument that Kroenke doesn't go toe to toe with Chelsea doesn't stand as the funds were there, Wenger didn't spend it. For the other two seasons (14/15 and 16/17) we spent roughly the same amount as Chelsea.

speedy

y va marquer wrote:
speedy wrote:
I think people didn't want to believe, but if you had asked fans of other clubs will cesc go back to barca i think most probably would have guessed that he would. It was the worst kept secret in football. Our fans were so mad at barca for being so obvious bout it. It was rubbed in our faces. So we should have seen it coming.

You said "only a dedicated glue sniffer thought he would hang around" now it's "people didn't want to believe" either way you're assuming that the mood and atmosphere surrounding the club back then was equivalent to what we have now, and that people should not have been surprised that Cesc would be sold - that was not the case. Cesc was the first big shock sale under Wenger, there was no precedent in terms of selling a player who was seen as key to the future of team and it's prospects.

I changed from one to the other after reading your message and taking it into account, it was obvious at least in retrospect. When the penny dropped for the swarms of followers on forums probably differed. We had sold of the invincibles and hleb the year before and others. Every year we were selling. It was a clear theme. And Cesc as much as he may have liked arsenal was always intending to return to barca.

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