The Havertz's Knee Memorial Injury Thread: Page 131 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

The Havertz's Knee Memorial Injury Thread

USArsenal

He's one of the ones that could 'theoretically' return this weekend. But we won't know until the presser

Big Willie

USArsenal He's one of the ones that could 'theoretically' return this weekend. But we won't know until the presser

We probably won't even know at the presser, just that they may or may not be available and we'll continue to monitor the situation, only for then to be fit on the day. Arteta gives nothing away in his press conferences usually.

Qwiss

Be lovely if we had Madueke, Ode and Martinelli all on the bench with Gyokeres starting.

Big Willie

USArsenal He's one of the ones that could 'theoretically' return this weekend. But we won't know until the presser

Big Willie We probably won't even know at the presser, just that they may or may not be available and we'll continue to monitor the situation, only for then to be fit on the day. Arteta gives nothing away in his press conferences usually

So predictable haha

Calafiori: "He missed the [Italy] games. He wasn't available. He's been carrying a few things. We had to bring him back. He hasn't trained yet. We have another session tomorrow. Let's see."

On Odegaard, Martinelli, Gyokeres, Havertz, Jesus and Madueke coming back for the derby: "We put a lot of energy in the international break with the medical staff to try to bring them back as quickly as possible.

"Tomorrow we have another training session to see how they are feeling, if this game is too close or they can have a contribution in the game

Miken never gives anything away.

Coombs

Burnwinter So it would've been smart to rotate him knowing he'd be called up by Brazil.

I just don't see how Arsenal have the responsibility to prepare players for other teams who aren't even playing competitive games. Our games actually mattered.

QuincyAbeyie

Coombs it's not really about whether it's right that we have the responsibility. When we know Brazil (or insert any country here) will do something even though they shouldn't, we still need to prepare for it. If not, the consequences will be our own. It doesn't help us at all that it's Brazil's fault Gabriel got injured.

Tam

Coombs Our games actually mattered...to you...me...Arsenal.

They mattered no more or less than the Senegal game did to a Brazilian fan/Ancelotti/Brazil.

It might look like a meaningless friendly, but for a team hoping to win a World Cup these games are effectively like their pre-seasons where they stake their claims, develop their tactics, work on their chemistry and so on. They aren't meaningless, regardless of anyone's opinion of the importance of International football.

It was absolutely predictable that he would be used by Brazil, and I've no doubt Arteta would likely have known exactly how much he was planned to play. With that in mind Arteta's own use of him does come into question.

The same questions about the management of his game time would be asked if he had got injured at Sunderland or Spurs instead of away with Brazil.

Burnwinter

Coombs I just don't see how Arsenal have the responsibility to prepare players for other teams who aren't even playing competitive games.

Already said it, but Arsenal is accountable for what Arsenal can control. In this case whether Gabriel, who was nailed on to get a call-up from Brazil, had played six 90s in 20 days before he joined the Brazil camp.

We can only conjecture whether that influenced the chance of Gabi picking up a groin strain, but since he was training separately, it seems likely Arsenal knew he was knackered so Arsenal or Gabi asked Brazil to put him on lighter duties. Not playing him so much was an alternative Arsenal could have chosen.

It really is only conjecture. A groin strain can be provoked by overuse, sudden extensions, or by a return to high intensity activity following a rest.

Coombs

Tam Our games actually mattered...to you...me...Arsenal.

Except not, because ours were factually competitive matches while their's factually weren't. If we'd risked our players' fitness like that for a preseason game we'd be rightly slammed. Ancelotti and Brazil were wrong. The whole Brazil setup and strategy is wrong.

Tam

Coombs In your opinion.

On the face of it, I'd probably agree with you that it seems excessive for Brazil to use him for over an hour if he's carrying an injury or at a level of fatigue that needs managed. But factually, he was fit to play, wanted to play, and Brazil were factually entitled to play him.

I don't think we had heard anything about him carrying an injury before this break, so if that is down to them managing his load due to fatigue, all roads lead back to asking Arteta why that is in mid-November when he has a deep squad.

Qwiss

Big Willie tbf as much as we'd like to know Thomas Franck wants to know too, makes sense to keep it under wraps.

Big Willie

Qwiss tbf as much as we'd like to know Thomas Franck wants to know too, makes sense to keep it under wraps.

I agree. He never gives anything away unless someone is deffo out for a while. It's mind games, and it makes sense to do it. Luckily when he does it I know the player isn't too far away in any case and they usually end up in the squad more often than not.

Sicario2

Big Willie unfortunately when Arteta says ‘weeks’ he means months :-(

RocktheCasbah

As RowJimmy said the other day, there's a hell of a lot of certainty going on in thia thread. It could absolutely be that Gabriel got injured because Arteta hasn't managed his load properly, or that Brazil didn't. It could also be, y' know, players get injured all the time. Even even they're feeling great.

Blaming Arteta for an injury we know for a fact Gabriel suffered whilst playing for his country, in a friendly, is a wild one - even by some of the standards here.

Sicario2

RocktheCasbah it’s not a one off though. Most of our guys from the 2022-2023 are cooked, what’s the common denominator? It’s Arteta. When we appraise Arteta at the end of the season and if we haven’t won anything, load management will come into play.

Meatwad

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6819483/2025/11/20/the-alternative-premier-league-table-clubs-injuries/

Klaus

I love that Wolves are last in the injury table too.

RocktheCasbah

Sicario2 is it also Arteta's fault that Martin Odegaard landed on his shoulder twice and then clashed knees with someone? William Saliba has played a load of football for us and is fine, Bukayo Saka has had two hamstring injuries in five years and everyone wants to haul Arteta over the coals for that. Why isn't Leandro Trossard injured? He's played a ton of football over the last year.

I completely agree Arteta needed to improve his load management this season. I believe - by and large, he has done so. I don't think one example of Gabriel getting injured whilst on international duty should be a reason to start pelting the manager.

Everyone wants to blame someone, the fact is as long as there's football, any sport, you'll have injuries. You can't avoid them..

Sicario2

RocktheCasbah leo is always rotated with Mart and some simply have more mileage than others (Ben white). Why is Havertz cooked? Because Arteta played him non-stop this time last year.

Arteta is definitely responsible for a large portion of these injuries.

Qwiss

RocktheCasbah is it also Arteta's fault that Martin Odegaard landed on his shoulder twice and then clashed knees with someone?

Can't land on your shoulder if you aren't played

QuincyAbeyie

Some will always think there's nothing to be done about what happens to us.

RocktheCasbah

QuincyAbeyie well, I don't think anyone's seriously going to argue they've got a way to stop players getting injured - are they?

RocktheCasbah

Sicario2 Why is Havertz cooked? Because Arteta played him non-stop this time last year.

You know this for an absolute, 100% fact, do you?

How does Kai Havertz picking up a knee injury in training in August have anything to do with the hamstring injury he picked up 8 months previously and came back from in May?

lorddulaarsenal

Sicario2 it’s that or we rotate and win fewer points

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