Maybe there simply weren't any decent clubs asking for him? Don't like the idea that every player who honours their contract is "squeezing" every penny out, he was a good player for us for a while and lost form when the whole team collapsed, would be dumb to leave now that his stock is at an all time low.

Yup, he actually actively tries to leave since 2 years ago.

This summer was kinda weird though, I think Arteta wanted to keep him actually.

jones wrote:

Maybe there simply weren't any decent clubs asking for him? Don't like the idea that every player who honours their contract is "squeezing" every penny out, he was a good player for us for a while and lost form when the whole team collapsed, would be dumb to leave now that his stock is at an all time low.

It's not going to get any higher barely making it into the match day squad, and certainly not now that he's potentially got a serious injury.

I recall his move to Leverkusen broke down last summer because they couldn't agree personal terms. There were also stories this summer that he demanded Arsenal pay out the remainder of his contract in order to secure a move to Fenerbache (a tactic used by his best buddy). Maybe they're not true, but it adds up to me because he's certainly good enough to attract some interest. 

Sokratis did the same thing. Went from saying it wasn't about the money and that he'd leave if he's not getting mins to suddenly saying he's happy to stay at Arsenal to see out his contract. It's obviously a ploy from agents essentially trying to call our bluff.

He's on too much money, partly because he was a free agent and partly because those running Arsenal were idiots back then.

I would bet even as a free agent this summer, he'll struggle to earn even half of the money he's on here.

goon wrote:
jones wrote:

Maybe there simply weren't any decent clubs asking for him? Don't like the idea that every player who honours their contract is "squeezing" every penny out, he was a good player for us for a while and lost form when the whole team collapsed, would be dumb to leave now that his stock is at an all time low.

It's not going to get any higher barely making it into the match day squad, and certainly not now that he's potentially got a serious injury.

I recall his move to Leverkusen broke down last summer because they couldn't agree personal terms. There were also stories this summer that he demanded Arsenal pay out the remainder of his contract in order to secure a move to Fenerbache (a tactic used by his best buddy). Maybe they're not true, but it adds up to me because he's certainly good enough to attract some interest. 

Sokratis did the same thing. Went from saying it wasn't about the money and that he'd leave if he's not getting mins to suddenly saying he's happy to stay at Arsenal to see out his contract. It's obviously a ploy from agents essentially trying to call our bluff.

Yeah I don't think any of that is true. He had terms agreed with Schalke in case they were going to stay up making allegedly about half of what he's getting here, and Leverkusen probably could've at least matched that. He also went and joined his boyhood club in a desperate attempt to save them from the drop making a lot less than he would've had he stayed.

Also pretty sure Sokratis left last winter. He's a 33 year old now who used to start regularly under Emery, got dropped altogether by Arteta and then left almost exactly a year later, what exactly do you want him to do pull up sticks immediately after seeing he's benched? And he's a fixture for Olympiakos now too for what it's worth.

He was barely making the squad and from memory it was made clear to him that he wasn't in the clubs plans during that summer.

It's a tactic that's been so commonly reported that there's clearly something in it. It's not to say players are money grabbing mercenaries who don't care about football or anything, they're well entitled to look after their financial interests whilst they play, I'm questioning whether it is actually in their interests. There's a long, long list of footballers making stupid decisions over relatively immaterial amounts because they're fed bad advice from agents promising them the world.

goon wrote:

He was barely making the squad and from memory it was made clear to him that he wasn't in the clubs plans during that summer.

It's a tactic that's been so commonly reported that there's clearly something in it. It's not to say players and money grabbing mercenaries or anything, they're well entitled to look after their own interests, I'm questioning whether it is actually in their interests.

Squeezing every penny out of a situation sure sounded a little different.

Kolasinac started for us even under Arteta initially, longer than Sokratis did plus anyone could see that Tierney was brittle. He left on loan for Schalke and wanted to stay there by all accounts, that he didn't leave this past window is probably due to his stock plummeting along with Schalke's. I don't think it's the worst idea to not immediately leave when a coach tells you you're not needed, he can change his mind, have his hand forced or be rightly and unceremoniously sacked tarred and feathered.

As for agents giving bad advice if your agent tells you to leave your club (as you seem to suggest) who pays you some alleged 8m to sign for one who'll give you 2m you need a new agent.

No but your agent could tell you to negotiate a settlement with your current club so you're not left out of pocket or too badly out of pocket so you can sign for someone who's still willing to pay you 2m a year and secure your future before your stock falls any further (or worse) rather than play a game of chicken.

We're both speculating on things we don't really know about. But you're giving footballers (and their agents) a very generous benefit of the doubt and I'm not convinced many in this industry, players, club execs, agents or otherwise, deserve it.

I don't know much but you do even less seeing how you insinuate a deal to Leverkusen fell through because of wages. Leverkusen are very solid in financial terms and Schalke are a complete clusterfuck, if he would've moved to one and not the other it's 100% not because of money.

I don't think it's very common that players make myopic decisions like that, for instance I'm certain there's absolutely zero chance the deal you talked about was on the table and another interested and interesting club came calling. Kolasinac has never given any indication of being happy to sit on the bench why would he be now.
Also this popular tripe of agents being greedy idiots who prey on dumb idiotic footballers is rarely true. There are loads of agents who invest their own money and loads of time into their clients, most are simply professionals who know that their interest and that of their client overlap in the vast majority of cases. Even when there are shady dealings in the background no agent worth their salt will act to the detriment of their player. If Kolasinac didn't move last summer it's simply because there wasn't anything of interest in the market.

Auba injured on international duty. Doubtful for Liverpool.

Fuck. That messes us up a lot. I hope Arteta plays Eddie instead of him because I think if we move Laca to CF we'll end up being too deep.

Partey has been agued by this damn groin injury in his time at Arsenal.

Yeah. Based on what's out there, though, it's all rather unclear as to whether Partey and Auba are actually going to be unavailable, or if they've been being protected a bit just for this match.

Tierney seems to have come through both international games unscathed, playing the full game on Friday then being subbed off, looking tired but otherwise OK, on Monday. Robertson on the other hand limped off, and having just read up on it, appears to have played from half time with a hamstring issue and now seems a doubt for the weekend.

Going off on a tangent, here's a few Tierney highlights from the games.

Good stuff from Tierney there.

I knew he'd play for Scotland, and play well, despite missing Arsenal games. He needs to get his head into it at Arsenal now though because Tavares is going to do everything to hold onto that shirt.

Burnwinter wrote:

Yeah. Based on what's out there, though, it's all rather unclear as to whether Partey and Auba are actually going to be unavailable, or if they've been being protected a bit just for this match.

Given they both missed crucial World Cup qualifiers, there's no doubt they must have been injured. Given their respective statuses in their national teams, it was likely an injury there was no way they could play through - which for me doesn't bode well.

Now comes Arteta’s real test right? It’s periods like these you earn your stripes as a manager. Tough round of games, less than ideal squad composition. How do we look going into January, and coming out of the AFCON

Auba back in training and ready to face Liverpool. Panic over.

Ricky1985 wrote:

Good stuff from Tierney there.

I knew he'd play for Scotland, and play well, despite missing Arsenal games. He needs to get his head into it at Arsenal now though because Tavares is going to do everything to hold onto that shirt.

Burnwinter wrote:

Yeah. Based on what's out there, though, it's all rather unclear as to whether Partey and Auba are actually going to be unavailable, or if they've been being protected a bit just for this match.

Given they both missed crucial World Cup qualifiers, there's no doubt they must have been injured. Given their respective statuses in their national teams, it was likely an injury there was no way they could play through - which for me doesn't bode well.

Partey missed an important match but Gabon had no chance to qualify anyway, we probably asked them to let him come home early which they didn't mind at that point.

Oh my bad, sorry. I thought I read he had helped them qualify (saw a clip of him dancing in the drrssing room), but thinking about it for more than 2 seconds, I've realised that Gabon qualifying is very unlikely! 😆

flobaba wrote:

Now comes Arteta’s real test right? It’s periods like these you earn your stripes as a manager. Tough round of games, less than ideal squad composition. How do we look going into January, and coming out of the AFCON

Yep. If he can keep the recent form going through till the end of AFCON he'll be on his way to proving something.

Ricky1985 wrote:

Oh my bad, sorry. I thought I read he had helped them qualify (saw a clip of him dancing in the drrssing room), but thinking about it for more than 2 seconds, I've realised that Gabon qualifying is very unlikely! 😆

Nobody's qualified so far anyway, this was just the pre-qualifying for the final round 😆 The ten group winners will play in knockout ties deciding which five nations will go to Qatar.

Big teams who will miss out so far are Cote d'Ivoire and South Africa, the latter level on points with Ghana with equal GD and just goals scored fewer, courtesy of a dodgy penalty last night to boot.

The African qualifiers grouping is dodgy. Some big teams together and some groups have 4 weaker teams. Poor Ivory Coast...

Pretty incomprehensible honestly. These convoluted qualifier systems have to be scrapped. Playoffs in general are quite stupid if you ask me.

Issue is not with the qualifying, it's with ruling that Africa with close to 60 countries has five qualifying spots.

They should have limited the number of European spots as is when they decided to expand it, I can live without Wales, Ukraine and Macedonia in the World Cup, would much rather see more teams from Asia and Africa - maybe 10 each.

jones wrote:

Issue is not with the qualifying, it's with ruling that Africa with close to 60 countries has five qualifying spots.

The quality of the other 40 countries are really low though. Asia have many countries too but quality like Africa is concentrated at the top teams and only have 4.5 spots which still works fairly well generally due to the qualifying format. Group J and E is ridiculously weak in quality then you have South Africa, Ghana / Ivory Coast Cameroon grouped together 3 of the strongest teams in Africa. Not sure how their seeding panned out.

I think both South and North America have the best qualifying format.

Clrnc wrote:
jones wrote:

Issue is not with the qualifying, it's with ruling that Africa with close to 60 countries has five qualifying spots.

The quality of the other 40 countries are really low though. Asia have many countries too but quality like Africa is concentrated at the top teams and only have 4.5 spots which still works fairly well generally due to the qualifying format. Group J and E is ridiculously weak in quality then you have South Africa, Ghana / Ivory Coast Cameroon grouped together 3 of the strongest teams in Africa. Not sure how their seeding panned out.

I think both South and North America have the best qualifying format.

There will always be difficult groups or seeding issues, even in Europe you have shit teams like Wales or Fyrom still in the mix because they were drawn into poor groups while Norway with their best team in ages is out. With Africa the qualifying could be better but with just five spots there will 100% be decent teams missing out, even spreading the good teams out over all groups wouldn't change that plus it would just deprive others from the chance of playing in the WC which Congo and especially Mali definitely deserved after this qualification.

I take your point about the decent teams missing out jones, but that happens everywhere. But clrnc is right - the football quality on display in some of the African qualifiers is pukeworthy. Tried watching last week - couldn’t make it through the entire 90 minutes even when it was Nigeria playing against Cape Verde, and we are supposed to be one of the better squads.

3 months later

Arteta confirms Tomiyasu is a doubt for Watford game on Sunday.

The guys is injured a lot, how many games is it already this season?
Looked into it, the season before this, he was out 3 times with 3 different injuries for 54 days(and of course he had a calf injury then as well)
The 2019/2020 season he missed 76 days with injury...

Didn't we rush him back for the Liverpool cup game? He looked all over the place in that game as well.

Yeah find it hard to blame him. He was still injured and played through injections for that game. No surprise he aggravated it badly after that.

HomeSteak wrote:

Arteta confirms Tomiyasu is a doubt for Watford game on Sunday.

The guys is injured a lot, how many games is it already this season?
Looked into it, the season before this, he was out 3 times with 3 different injuries for 54 days(and of course he had a calf injury then as well)
The 2019/2020 season he missed 76 days with injury...

We need good rotation fullbacks on both sides if we are in the CL next season. Tomi and Tierney are 2 players you really don't want to be pushing too hard over a season.

a month later

If Tierney is out for the rest of the season and Partey for the rest of the month (both speculative timeframes from me) then more costly points will be dropped and the Champions League race will be a distant memory by the end of the season.

We all knew we had to keep our first choice 11 fit to stand a chance of Champions League qualification.

we've been fortunate with injuries during this run. if partry is sidelined or impaired for the next month you might as well pack it in. the whole system falls apart without him

Quincy Abeyie wrote:

That's why the January window was madness.

It really was. If Partey's out for longer than 1 or 2 games, we're fucked. And what are the odds Lacazette scores another goal this year? We need 2 midfielders and 2 strikers anyway, should have gotten one of each in the winter, didn't even have to be a longterm solution or the "right" player. Just someone to ensure we don't have to start all of Tavares, Lokonga, Cedric, Laca and Xhaka against the likes of ManUtd or Spurs. That's half our team against Brighton most likely and none of them is good enough.

To be honest lets not overreact. We did badly in Jan window but Palace was always a game most expected us to drop points.

I think its just that the nature of the performance is so bad we are all angry.

Tierney having surgery and out for the season. Once I realized this season that Tierney was playing a limited game, I wasn't going to put much credence in his performances this campaign. The only thing I expected of him was to put together a half-season of just being a fit, selectable and soaking majority of minutes on offer. That would have been worthwhile in itself but alas. Soares, Saka, Xhaka, Tavares need to step up. Club needs to look into Doig, Cucurella, other talents for depth.