Should've signed him in 2013.
La Liga 16/17
Clrnc wrote:I think assists wise they are miles apart.
The Ronaldo was a better player than both. He wasn't even at his peak by the time he reached Madrid.
Mirth wrote:Clrnc wrote:I think assists wise they are miles apart.
The Ronaldo was a better player than both. He wasn't even at his peak by the time he reached Madrid.
Ronaldo peaked the second last season before he went to Madrid. I really haven't enjoyed watching him since.
Both games were terrible to watch with the Madrid one slightly better. I think Athletico are going to struggle to repeat their heroics last season.
Disagree on both counts. If you thought those games were terrible to watch you must not have seen us play often this season. Or any other Premier League side for that matter
And Atlético have won their last two games with a combined score of 9:0 against two good sides prior to getting a point at the Camp Nou. Honestly don't understand how you can learn that they'll struggle looking at them this season, Griezmann is still scoring for fun and their new signings look very good
General wrote:He's still a diving piece of shit Suarez. Awful character. He's not a patch on a peak Ronaldo.
he's the best player in the game right now - for the last 6 months or so. completely unstoppable. is he better overall than Messi/Ronaldo are as good as peak Messi/Ronaldo? no. but right now, he's king. we really f-ed up here. he'd have terrorised Premier League defenses on his own at Arsenal
I think he's a bit erratic and blows hot and cold. Top player no doubt but there is an obvious shortage of quality strikers in the game right now and this helps him stands out. I think the biggest part of his game is actually his selflessness which is what brought out the best in Sturridge and Sterling at Liverpool.
@[deleted] I don't want to get into a Premier League v La Liga argument here and you can only serve one master (team wise) but in my view the Barca v Atletico game was awful. The Madrid game was played with more urgency and intensity, possibly because Real went behind. Football is first and foremost an entertainment sport and both games lacked value in in this regard. Barca were coasting and the combination of injuries to Messi/Busquets and Masherano's slip let Atletico back in. Simeone has done wonders with that team because on paper there are a lot of above average players. Felipe Luis for one is awful and probably won't get a game ahead of Gibbs. Torres is not effective against the top sides and Griezman carries most of their attacking threat. He has to track back a lot, I think he was marking Newmar at some point, and this makes Atletico look very negative.
We'll have to agree to disagree here. If I recall correctly Felipe Luis was MOTM in last season's CL 1/4 final in which Atlético kicked Barcelona out, very big claim he wouldn't get a game ahead of Gibbs of all people.
Torres not being effective against the top sides is a funny claim too, I'd say his major contributions during his second spell at Atlético were all against Real or Barcelona, some big performances in the CL (vs Bayern e.g.) too although there's the obvious stinker he's had in last season's final. His bigger overall problem though is that he doesn't score enough vs smaller teams
General wrote:Simeone has done wonders with that team because on paper there are a lot of above average players. Felipe Luis for one is awful and probably won't get a game ahead of Gibbs.
Are you talking about them in general or just on the back of this game?
Claudius wrote:General wrote:He's still a diving piece of shit Suarez. Awful character. He's not a patch on a peak Ronaldo.
he's the best player in the game right now - for the last 6 months or so. completely unstoppable. is he better overall than Messi/Ronaldo are as good as peak Messi/Ronaldo? no. but right now, he's king. we really f-ed up here. he'd have terrorised Premier League defenses on his own at Arsenal
You're confusing most effective with best
Yep, I think the nature of modern super clubs makes it very difficult to evaluate players through stats alone. They're bound to be bloated when the team as a whole is so superior to 99% of the competition.
Never mind Messi - I'd say Neymar has been a better footballer than Suarez in the last two years, although he hasn't scored as much.
Neymar has been disappointing and ineffective this season from what I've read from Barca fans.
Neymar's not a better player but I agree with Klaus. The Messi/Ronaldo era has completely skewed people's perceptions of what a good footballer is and it's not just the number of goals they score. I'd say someone like Modric is a better player than Suarez still. And just because Messi's playing a deeper role doesn't make him an inferior footballer at all.
I think Costa minus the antics is a better striker than Suarez. More versatile and more dynamic.
....
....
Took the words right outta my mouth flo.
I think Yaya Sanogo when he surprises you will be better than Suarez.
E: For real Coombs, I'm speechless over here.
General wrote:I think Costa minus the antics is a better striker than Suarez. More versatile and more dynamic.
But technically not on the same level.
General wrote:I think Costa minus the antics is a better striker than Suarez. More versatile and more dynamic.
No man, just no.
General wrote:I think Costa minus the antics is a better striker than Suarez. More versatile and more dynamic.
No offense but... The fuck? Suarez tore the league apart in a way Costa has never done.. It's not like Costa would play better if not for his antics.
Not sure. Different types of strikers.
Quincy Abeyie wrote:General wrote:I think Costa minus the antics is a better striker than Suarez. More versatile and more dynamic.
No offense but... The fuck? Suarez tore the league apart in a way Costa has never done.. It's not like Costa would play better if not for his antics.
What does this actually mean? I realise this might not be a popular opinion because some of you have your heads buried so far up Suarez's arse because of the lack of top quality strikers in the world and the fact that he plays for Barca and comes up against the joke of a defending that regularly goes on in La Liga. Watch some of his finishing closely and he can be quite erratic. He's come up against us a few times and done fukall. Costa may not be as eye catching but he's a formidable striker and unplayable when on form. If you are talking about tearing leagues apart, watch his last season at Atletico and Chelsea's title winning season is 14/15. I don't even like the guy.
I declare General the winner of this debate.
Two world class strikers but put the question to the top defenders out there and the answers won't be too far apart. I know who I'd rather face.
General wrote:Quincy Abeyie wrote:No offense but... The fuck? Suarez tore the league apart in a way Costa has never done.. It's not like Costa would play better if not for his antics.
What does this actually mean? I realise this might not be a popular opinion because some of you have your heads buried so far up Suarez's arse because of the lack of top quality strikers in the world and the fact that he plays for Barca and regularly comes up against the joke of a defending that regularly goes on in La Liga. Watch some of his finishing closely and he can be quite erratic. He's come up against us a few times and done fukall. Costa may not be as eye catching but he's a formidable striker and unplayable when on form. If you are talking about tearing leagues apart, watch his last season at Atletico and Chelsea's title winning season is 14/15. I don't even like the guy.
You blatantly don't watch much of Suarez at all. At any rate, Suarez performance for Liverpool surpasses anything Costa's ever done - including his last season at At. Madrid. Couple that with Costa's poor integration into the Spanish NT and his last season at Chelsea and it's not even a debate.
And I don't even like him, I've gone from saying he's overrated to defending the guy. And don't hide behind the 'You're just a Suarez fanboy' excuse, saying that Costa is a better player than Suarez is a pretty extreme opinion. And one that isn't shared by most - whether their armchair fans or professionals themselves.
Oh really. The same Liverpool team that hit a purple patch for half a season after playing I game a week when everyone was playing 2 and still failed to close out the title? Suarez was on the pitch when we turfed them out of the FA cup in 2014. Watch him in our home game against Barca last season and he didn't do much. We could never keep Costa this quiet. I've said before that the best part of his game is actually how he brings other players into play. He's a very selfless striker and that's difficult to find at this level. Two very contrasting strikers but in terms of pure lethalness in front of goal, Costa gets my vote any day. The guy is a goal machine and on current form he is one of the best currently. His movement, positioning and runs are just impossible to defend against. Go and watch his two goals against Swansea.
[video=dailymotion]http://https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=819qQ3H1GxI
General wrote:Oh really. The same Liverpool team that hit a purple patch for half a season after playing I game a week when everyone was playing 2 and still failed to close out the title? Suarez was on the pitch when we turfed them out of the FA cup in 2014.
Yeah, the same Liverpool team that finished 8th the season before and defied the odds to challenge for the title. Something which they haven't achieved since. Are you trying to argue that Suarez didn't actually have a phenomenal season? I can't even understand your point here.
Watch him in our home game against Barca last season and he didn't do much. We could never keep Costa this quiet.
So what? Why on earth would a one off performance convince anyone? I could just as easily point to Costa's games for Spain or any of his games last season and it's not like Suarez never scored against us or in a big game. Moreover Costa's strengths in general are exactly suited to target our weaknesses. It doesn't necessarily mean I'd rather have him in the team for 50 games a season.
I've said before that the best part of his game is actually how he brings other players into play. He's a very selfless striker and that's difficult to find at this level.
Not sure if you mean Suarez or Costa here.
Two very contrasting strikers but in terms of pure lethalness in front of goal, Costa gets my vote any day. The guy is a goal machine and on current form he is one of the best currently. His movement, positioning and runs are just impossible to defend against. Go and watch his two goals against Swansea.
[video=dailymotion]
Costa is an extremely lethal and powerful striker - I wouldn't necessarily argue against that. But so what? That literally goes back to my point above. Being a good finisher is not enough anymore - otherwise Mario Gomez would be one of the best strikers in Europe. At any rate, it's a stretch to call Costa a goal machine seeing as he's blown hot and cold over the past 18 months. I'll cut him some slack given the shambles Chelsea found themselves in last year but overall the likes of Lewandowski, Aguero and Ibrahamovic have better claims to be labelled the best striker in the world.
Edit: I'm going to leave it at that, I think flobaba had the right idea.
Costa vs. Suarez 
Can someone please ban this discussion
I don't think you remember how Liverpool's season evolved in 2013/14 otherwise you would not cite it as conclusive evidence. They went out off all competitions by the half way stage and had a good second half with less games to play which aided their push for the title. Yes Suarez was phenomenal as was Sturridge and Sterling, but that was mostly for half a season. It is fashionable to subscribe to popular opinion but look carefully at the strengths and weaknesses of both players and you'd realise they are not far apart. I'm not really getting dragged into a debate on a comparison with other strikers. Everyone has an opinion on where they think a particular striker ranks but ask yourself if you were a defender who you would rather face.
Quincy Abeyie wrote:Costs vs. Suarez
Yes sure
Hornet's nest for some you.
General wrote:but ask yourself if you were a defender who you would rather face.
Come off it, I'm now supposed to put myself in the position of an international standard defender and think about who I'd rather face? As much as I don't like individual awards, both the Balon D'or and PFA Players Awards pretty much settle that argument in favour of Suarez.
General wrote:I don't think you remember how Liverpool's season evolved in 2013/14 otherwise you would not cite it as conclusive evidence. They went out off all competitions by the half way stage and had a good second half with less games to play which aided their push for the title. Yes Suarez was phenomenal as was Sturridge and Sterling, but that was mostly for half a season. It is fashionable to subscribe to popular opinion but look carefully at the strengths and weaknesses of both players and you'd realise they are not far apart. I'm not really getting dragged into a debate on a comparison with other strikers. Everyone has an opinion on where they think a particular striker ranks but ask yourself if you were a defender who you would rather face.
You seem to happily miss out the fact that Suarez was banned for the start of the season which is when Liverpool dropped points. Sturridge and Sterling benefited the most from playing alongside Suarez who you rightly pointed out earlier is exceptionally good at making his teammates look better. As for not having regular games, Liverpool have hardly played in the CL for most of this decade. While an undoubted advantage, it's no guarantor of success that you make it out to be. Most of the time there's a reason why those teams aren't in the CL in the first place. I'm loving the irony of not being allowed to use the whole of 13/14 as conclusive evidence (which I haven't) but somehow the fact that Suarez was a bit quiet against Arsenal twice on the other hand is?!
It's really not difficult to grasp which players are tougher to defend against. You don't need to be an international level defender at all lol. The player A is better than player B arguments doesn't lead anywhere especially when comparing world class players. I can perfectly understand why Suarez would be seen as a better striker than Costa. But I can also understand if Costa is seen as the better player. They are two very different strikers with different attributes. On pure form I would rather face Suarez. I think Costa is the more potent forward and the suggestion is far from the taboo some would make you believe it is.
You can but most of us don't, all in fact most of the footballing world won't understand how Costa is seen as the better player.
It's funny you talk about form because for the past 2 years Suarez is out of the world, both in terms of performances and goals.
Utter nonsense. Who are most of the footballing world? Henry was on TV at the Euros describing Giroud as the best striker in the world on current form. Costa is world class and on current form not many strikers are playing better. Poor form in 2015/6 shouldn't cloud judgement.
Here's an interesting comparison with Zlatan.
Are you now denying that most people think Suarez is better than Costa? Aren't the managers and international captains a good indicator on "the footballing world"?
General wrote:Henry was on TV at the Euros describing Giroud as the best striker in the world on current form.
Really? Do you have the clip where he said those exact words? Interested to see how that came about.
Henry said that? Embarrassing.
Oh, at the euros. ..probably when nobody else was playing.
Mirth wrote:General wrote:What does this actually mean? I realise this might not be a popular opinion because some of you have your heads buried so far up Suarez's arse because of the lack of top quality strikers in the world and the fact that he plays for Barca and regularly comes up against the joke of a defending that regularly goes on in La Liga. Watch some of his finishing closely and he can be quite erratic. He's come up against us a few times and done fukall. Costa may not be as eye catching but he's a formidable striker and unplayable when on form. If you are talking about tearing leagues apart, watch his last season at Atletico and Chelsea's title winning season is 14/15. I don't even like the guy.
You blatantly don't watch much of Suarez at all. At any rate, Suarez performance for Liverpool surpasses anything Costa's ever done - including his last season at At. Madrid.
Disagree. Even if we're leaving aside that Costa won the title and Suárez failed at the last hurdle I don't see why Suárez' last season at Liverpool shouldbe rated higher; he scored and assisted loads in a very attacking side but he also had a week of rest between games. Diego Costa on the other hand was winning games on his own in a better league, often enough he was the only player in the opposition half. He was also instrumental in getting Atlético into the CL final
I'd still rate Suárez higher as he's kept his level while Costa dropped after moving to Chelsea, also Costa has recurring hamstring issues which probably will never completely heal
Suarez is much better than Costa.